Irish Red Setter Online Health Survey conducted in 2011 - Results published!

[Susan Stone]

Do you remember the on-line Irish Red Setter health survey many of us took part in last June to Sept 2011?

The results have been published by Ed Hall, Chairman, Irish Setter Breed Clubs Joint Health Coordinators Group

Read his article on the Irish Setter Health website here:

http://www.irishsetterhealth.info/content/2011-breed-health-survey

 

For those who did not see the initial post, here is the link to the original blog:

http://irishsetters.ning.com/forum/topics/irish-setter-health-surve...

 

[Margaret Sierakowski]

Dee, I also really struggle to get  a hold on genetics - its not just about reading and  trying hard for a few weeks and getting on top of it, but knowledge about canine genetics just keeps moving on and on, and one has to try and keep up to date, even if like me one finds it hard to understand more than the basics.

One of the things I have noticed in the last three days since Pedigree Dogs Exposed Three Years on was shown is how the quality of the discussion has improved  since the first film was shown. Three years hasnt been enough to see any really changes in the dogs, but the discussion is a lot more informed now , and far more people discussing the film seem to have a better grasp of genetics, the problems of inbreeding, the use of DNA tests, how to use COIs. the place of outcrossing etc. Back in 2008 when the first film came out, much of the discussion was emotive , with insults being hurled around on both sides . If the Kennel Club hasnt yet achieved much in the way of changing the dogs, at least awareness has been raised among more breeders, and discussion about the issues is becoming better informed

We are all going to have to be better educated as breeders

 

[Susan Stone]

Margaret, I agree. And I find yours a very positive statement. We have moved a good step forward.

 

[Dee Rance]

Again I agree with all of the above both Camilla and Margaret...we do as breeders need to be better educated...but we also need to be more honest...re the Dogs Exposed program...I was really shocked to see that someone with the ''top sire'' in the breed was using him when he was diagnosed with a really bad genetic problem...this is reprehensible...and I hope that our beautiful breed won't be subject to this kind of thing...a lot of it is due to honesty...first we have to be honest with ourselves and don't be ''Kennel Blind'' and if you have a problem don't breed please...I got through about four bitches before I could breed with satisfaction that I would not (hopefully) pass on any major or minor problem...we can only say that ''at the point of breeding nothing has gone wrong'' unless we have a genetic test for it..and as far as in breeding is concerned it has always been said that it is ''inbreeding'' if it goes wrong and ''line breeding'' if it doesn't...we have to know what is behind out lines before trying something really close...I must say that there is a place for it...if done with honesty and knowledge...and then go ''out'' but that is only my opinion...I am sure that it isn't everyones...COI is good but we need to know what is behind the lines...my first litter was a very low COI, but, nearly all the litter and both parents died because of Bloat...you can have the lowest COI but still have really bad genetic problems,, so knowledge and honesty is a must..first and formost...well for me anyway...

And HD...it is a bad problem but you can get a dog with horrendous hips from two really good hipped parets...and visa versa....

[Susan Stone]

Camilla, I would love to have the article from HUNDSPORT (in English please;-)).

What you have outlined is most definitely THE greatest risk when it comes to DNA testing. As much as we need these tests so as to avoid breeding 'affecteds' of any illness, they are leading to the sad state that only those dogs who have tested 'clear of everything' will be used at stud. This is very wrong and will lead to the next catastrophy if all else remains the same.

Single recessive genetic conditions are at the moment the only ones that can be DNA-tetsed for. Polygenic inheritance of conditions is by far the greater problem affecting health. and this is where inbreeding plays a major role!

HD is clearly polygenic. Inbreeding (call it line breeding if you prefer) will cause these illnesses to rear their ugly head sooner or later. Emma's sad case illustrates this in a typical way but we all know of similar cases. A severly affected pup from practically clear parents. How can that happen? Because we don't know what is on either side of the sire and the dam, we don't know anything about cousins & aunts. And because by inbreeding to a 'favoured' sire in the past, going back on multiple lines to certain dogs, without knowing (how could we!?) that said dog was on the threshold level for developing HD or throwing it. There lies the recipe for disaster.

Epilepsy, another presumed recessive & polygenic condition. If we unknowingly line breed to dogs just below the threshold to epilepsy we may be increasing the threshold in the offspring. Breeding along lines that have affected dogs in a direct line means you already have a high genetic threshold - it may just need a spark to set it off.

Bloat could be dominant with incomplete penetrance though there could be various forms of bloat with different triggering factors.

 

Where does this lead us? Camilla, true, we can't scrap every dog which has the slightest 'red danger sign' in his pedigree or we will end up with no dogs at all. But we can avoid inbreeding. And we can be honest about problems we have experienced and go to every effort of avoiding doubling up on these conditions. It just requires honesty.

 

Dee, I'm afraid if we are truthful we must accept that linebreeding to 'safe' dogs is not realistic. Why? That ultimate 'safe & healthy dog' does not exist. Every living being has detrimental genes, 'bad genes are a fact of life. Were that not the case we'd long be mating 'healthy' sibling to 'healthy' sibling and could carry on for ever... 

[Ossian]

thanks Susan

timely info given the announcement in the dog press that IRWS can be consdered for an outcross programme and their GB club genetics committee have been in discussion with the IS BC. I hope that we will see a proactive judgement on this and not a reactive one

[Susan Stone]

Thanks for all your replies. I think I should again say that this is a very preliminary online study which as stated by Ed Hall can at present not be considered a representative overview of the state of breed health.

Clearly people who have experienced health problems with their dog are more likely to take part in this kind of online study than those who have never had problems. The intention - at least that is what I understood - is to find out what health problems are considered the most acute and to define future research projects.

[Angela Roberts]

Thanks Susan for posting and what a joy to read through such civilised comments.  A lot can be learned from this discussion.

[Susan Stone]

My father just sent me this... and he has no idea what we are discussing;-))

[Ann Millington]

So true ;o]))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

 

[eva ciechonska]

Nice one Susan..........I second that!!

[Susan Stone]

I greatly appreciate the effort that the Joint Breed Club's health coordinators are putting in to enable our breeds to become healthier in the future. Certainly serious research into various heath conditions is needed. What also is of paramount importance is a change in our way of thinking, a way of thinking that has been traditional for well over 100 years!

This will not be easy but the pressure of the breed clubs and - even more so I dare say - the pressure of the public will force us breeders to rethink our breeding policy that has traditionally been aimed at winning in the show ring.

In the end, it will be down to the breeders to either follow the recommendations given or to watch the breed we all love deteriorate further until we arrive at a point certain other breeds have already reached: "Don't buy one of those... their average life span is 7 years..." Such as is already the case for Bernes Mountain Dogs, Flatcoats, Irish Wolfhounds, to name just a few.

Is this a horror scenario with not the slightest ounce of truth or probability? I sincerely hope so...