A "whipsett", a Gorpet?? A bl***y disaster?

[Ossian]

I have been reading the outcross debate and some of the other stuff on here this week and I know there are some fine minds and caring people on ES! I am not a crusader, quite the opposite, but as a Setter owner and lover I have to highlight this!!

In the main we cross Seters by accident and when we see Lab x doodles and schmoozies and god knows what else we get annoyed but dont think much more.

Yesterday evening I came across an advert for puppies.

A "pet home" is advertsing Gordon x whippet for £300. There is a pic of a spindly orange puppy (cute at that age I suppose)

The Gordon community in UK is not large and I have subsequently discovered that the Gordon bitch has allegedly had a litter ever season and the "pet home" is not.

We quibble and bicker on here about all sorts of things but if we could do some good too?

Follow up on pups

Keep an eye on for sale ads on the net

Be nosy and report things that dont seem right

PLEASE dont condone these designer breeds anymore

[Andy Benstead]

Hi Pat.

That sounds very interesting. I can imigane my IS as a guide dog, no telling where you would end up. He would get you there quick though!

[Andy Benstead]

Hi Mel.

That is true, although the Labradoodle was bred as a guide dog for people that are allergic to dog hairs. In my opinion a good idea, but a shame it turned out the way it has. There was a valid reason for breeding them. They were not bred as a so called designer dog. You get good and bad breeders of every type of dog the same as you get good and bad owners of every type of dog.

If it is possible to ignore the breeding, just looking at a Labradoodle, they look great. I am not saying they are all perfect dogs as you will always get a percentage of every breed/cross breed that has problems. I have spoken to many Labradoodle owners (and met the dogs) before and after I got Cassie and so far, every owner has been pleased with their dogs. Cassie is still young but you could not wish for a dog with a better temperament, she is a quick learner and so cuddly!

I am 100% happy to have her. Scruffy and cute. A bit like me (just the scruffy bit).

[Andy Benstead]

Hi Michelle.

As I stated in my previous post, the labradoodle will not be recognised as a breed in my lifetime. Obviously you know more about the Australian Labradoodle than I do. I didn't know about the name change. If people have bought them thinking they are purebred, I put most of the blame on the owners. Before anyone buys a dog, they should do a little research and know what they are buying. I did look up the name change and found it only changed a couple of months age. Thank you for the information.

[eva ciechonska]

You made a valid point in your last sentence Sue and it all boils down to cudos. The cudos of buyng a "designer dog" and the cudos of paying shed loads of money for it. There is no status in picking up a crossbred/mongrel from a rehoming centre. How easy it is to fool the dog buying public!
The breeder advertising the "Frisheppi" in Evie's comment should have been done under the Sale of Goods Act. I wonder what proof she gave to back up the alledged KC registration!

[Ossian]

Never mind proof of reg!! What about proof of non shedding? Proof of intelligence? Dont they care that white shepherds are among the breeds with serious PRA?

Andy insists that he doesnt have a mongrel and this is the problem! While these are fashion they will be acceptable but when the fickle finger moves on we are goung to dicover undocumented crosses littering all our breeds!

Caveat Emptor! When the IS fraternity needs to look outwih the normal boundaries for clear new bloodlines will they be sure that a mating will produce all Irish? If the bitch is a hidden cross I imagine some vreeders will be back to the bad old days of a pail of water beside the whelping box.

The KC has a scheme for breeders but at this rate its laughable! They cant do a damn thing! I still would like to see breed clubs do the right thing. Surely if you set up a club for a breed then it isnt just the elite who ae members of that club that should venefit it should be ALL of the breed?

 

[eva ciechonska]

Woah Evie, crossbreeding is not a new phenomena. Crossbreds, mongrels, call them what you will, have been around for as long as pedigree dogs. That includes mixtures with white GSDs and ISs. You could never prove coat shedding, guarantee temperament, size etc then. Crossbred breeding cannot be regulated by the KC because they only involve themselves with pedigree dogs. It could, however, be governed by legislation and I think if the KC and breed clubs lobby hard enough it could happen. The problem is that as long as vets, the RSPCA support crossbreeding and there are programmes like Pedigree Dogs Exposed so called designer dogs will continue to flourish. Where there is a market and money to be made there will always those that take advantage. When people realise the problems attached to these dogs demand (hopefully) will dry up. At the moment there doesn't seem to be much that we can do so let's just concentrate on breeding healthier IS instead.

[Andy Benstead]

 

Hi Eva.

As far as I can tell you have never been able to guarantee temperament, health, size etc with any dogs, past or present. Most of the time pedigree dog breeders get it right, but not always. In my opinion the law should put a stop to all bad breeders, but that will never happen.

As far as I know, not all designer dogs have problems and not all pedigree dogs are without problems.

Interesting to see where this reply will be posted.

[Andy Benstead]

 

 

Hi Ossian.

You say that I insist my dog is not a mongrel and you are right. I think it would help if you read my previous posts. From my point of view it makes no difference what my dog is called. The fact is, the definition of "Mongrel" is different to "Cross Breed". I did not create those terms or the definitions of them, but like it or not it is a fact.

As for shedding, if a person is serious about getting a dog, do the research and do not trust the breeder selling the animal. Some Labradoodles do not shed, but others do. They can have any one of three coat types.

You also have undocumented pedigree dogs littering the streets. Just because a person breeds pedigree dogs, that does not automatically make them a good breeder.

Please read my posts as I am not into designer things, I am not a snob and I am not gullible.

Do I think I have a special dog, yes? Our Labradoodle is loved by us just the same as our other animals. They are all just as special to us whatever breed or type.

I bet this reply ends up in the wrong place.

[Jennie Benstead]

Andy

This is the first time in over 35 yrs that I agree with you...lol

[Ossian]

Met a beauty last Wednesday just what you describe! Ome year old male huskyx malx GSD

young stupid couple whe were being dragged round the park. He would screeam "sit nice" while she was trying some Reiki moves on the poor thing! Not a clue.

You always know that its bad when two trainers look at the owners and trhe dog and DONT offer advise or even admit that they are trainers!

[Margaret Sierakowski]

Somebody in NE Scotland was breeding wolf/husky hybrids a few years back , and selling them as pets. They were a disaster, the kind of people who bought them couldnt control; them  Fortunately they all disappeared fairly quickly

I'm not entirely anti crossbreeding , if its done for a purpose, by somebody who knows what they are doing, and knows both breeds involved very well, it has a place in dog breeding, and historically thats where most of our modern breeds came from. Some modern breeds also descend from accidental matings, like Shelties who are descended from an accidental mating around 1900 in Shetland probably between a small sheepdog and a pet spitz type dog,, and the rough collies who got their head shape from an accidental mating between a borzoi and a collie in Queen Alexandra's kennels - the KC felt they couldnt refuse to register Queen Alexandra's dogs or to let her enter them at shows:))

And in working gundogs there is a long history of occasional illicit outcrossing, even after the KC became a "pure" registry and up to the present times. Some gundog crosses work, other dont and the descendants either get absorbed into breeding or they are quietly discarded. It can improve some desired traits in gundogs, while also making for a healthy genetic diversity. Nobody gets too upset about sprockers!

 

[Andy Benstead]

Hi Eva.

I must point out that I don't think I am gullible, I did not pay shed loads and if I could have got one from a rescue centre, I would have done so. If I had wanted a Staffordshire Bull Terrier or a Staffy cross, I had the choice of several hundred. When we were looking we could not find a dog that we liked the look of (no scruffy Labradoodle types) so we bought Cassie.

You will always get breeders that exploit a situation and always get gullible buyers of every breed or cross.

My reply arrived in the correct place, how come?