hip scores

[yvonne]

on what age do you X Ray your dog for Hip Dysplasia , on the age of 6 months to see if anything is wrong already , or do you wait that the dog is 12-18 months old?
and what must the score be in your country to breed with them?

[ursula wilby]

To be able to register the puppies in the swedish kennelclub, both parents must have clear hips.
Meaning either A or B.
I have never pre-X-rayed a dog and just keep my fingers crossed that everything is OK. I tell all puppy-buyers to wait with the X-rays until the dog is around 18 months old just to avoid those "not quite developed hips". I dont know how true that is, but general view seems to be that 18 months is "safer" than 12 months.
Having said that...I am the first one in line when it comes to x-raying my own dogs at the age of 12 months. Its sort of "do as I say - not as I do".
I just have no patience.........:-)))

[yvonne]

overhere you can register your puppies with the kennelclub , even if the hipscore is C or D from the parents , the breedclub have their own rules , i never pre x rayed my young dogs , kimmo was 12 months when we took the photo and it was perfect , with the gordons you see often that at twelve months that the connection is not good at that stage and they often will get a higher score just for that , so i think for that breed you better can wait til they are 18 months old

[Susan Stone]

Hi Yvonne, this hip scoring theme is always good for a discussion... I recommend my puppy buyers to have their dogs x-rayed between 18-24 months but for myself I admit to be like Ursula: I can't wait! Earliest age for official x-ray is 12 months.
From what I have heard on this site there are many different ways of treating this subject: most countries require full anaesthetic and only permit one centre to do the grading. In others every vet can grade the dog, some do not even require an anaesthetic - see Ana's remarks on this theme. In Finland the average HD score seems higher than maybe in Germany, Belgium does not require obligatory grading, neither does Britain, France I don't know. Also some vets advise the owners not to send in a bad xray, making it impossible to get an idea of the average rating of the breed.
All these points make it pretty hopeless to compare an A with an A... all depending where you live!

[yvonne]

your so right , you can not compare the A in Finland with the A in the Netherlands , we can go to any vet we want to go , but not any vet does take x rays , kimmo went without anaesthetics , was ready in 1 minute but it all depends on how experience the vet is in making x rays , only the Hirshfeld foundation in the Netherlands can grade the dog.

[ursula wilby]

We also have only one central reading place in Sweden and the vet X-raying must put the ID-number on the X-ray plate so there will be no confusion or mistakes made. Its all pretty tight and although you may re-X-ray the dog again at a later date for (hopefully) a better score, it does not happen all that often that the score is reversed.
But then, if the X-ray was done too early this is something you can try. I had this on one of my bitches, but from the very start her official papers said that the joint was not fully developed. So I was told right then that I should try later...as I am so impatient, I tried four months later and she had matured and was clear. Thats the danger of sitting in the vets waitingroom on the day the dog turns 12 months :-)))

[Carmel Murphy]

In Ireland we have to send our HD x-rays to the British Veterinary Association!! Nothing here in Ireland for checking hips!! They must be at least 12 months old. All results will be published. For breeding the recomendation is a total score well below 15( a bit vague!!) I had both my bitches checked just before they were 2 years old. My dog was checked earlier as he was to be used for stud duties!! Our X-Rays also must be marked with the dogs registration no. We have a choice whether or not to sedate our dogs for the x-rays. The BVA will send back an x-ray if it is of poor quality, and you need to do it all over again.

[yvonne]

in the netherlands the x rays also have the ID from the dog on it and if the photo is not good quality they have to xray again for better photo , for the gordons you can use a C dog/bitch on a A dog/bitch .

[ursula wilby]

The problem in Great Britain (as I understand it) is that the hipscore is added together. Meaning that you may have 1 on one side and 9 on the other. That means a score of 10 which would be pretty good. But actually is not good at all...looking at it from our perspective. If I X-ray a dog that has A on one side and D on the other, that dog will be classed as D in for instance Sweden.
Unless I have totally misunderstood it all, that is the greatest differance between the systems.
And something to watch out for if using a british stud-dog.
Ursula

[Carmel Murphy]

That is true maybe with some breeders, Ursula but we always put both scores when putting hip scores on a pedigree or when they are published;for example Megan is 3:5 we would not just state Total 8. All scores for both British and Irish dogs who have been tested are available to anyone wishing to use a stud dog(through the English Kennel Club)

[ursula wilby]

You are quite correct Carmel, there is a way to find out about the seperate score on each individual hip! But quite often, when advertising etc only the total hipscore will be shown...and it can be very confusing for the rest of us! :-)))

[Susan Stone]

Yes Ursula, I believe you are right there. As I understand it, the british system looks at 9 factors of the hip joint and each of these factors is scored from 0-6, each side separate. The swiss system works on 6 factors. Any high score in each individual factor will give the dog a higher grade.
If for example the british system gives a score of 4 for both Norberg angle and 3 Subluxation, adding up to 7 for one side (a reasonable score), this same dog would probably be graded with a C or D in Switzerland, as the 4 under Norberg angle/subluxation automatically downgrades the dog. When using a british stud dog I therfore like to see a copy of the BVA/KC certificate to see the individual scoring.
I also agree with Ginger that the siblings and relatives should also be taken into account. Not easy, is it?

[Carmel Murphy]

Thats very interesting to hear the different gradings for each country. In Switzerland what is considered a high score for each individual factor(example Norberg angle)? Megan has nothing more than 2 for any factor and most are 0.