Did the breed change or not since the sixties?

[Henk ten Klooster]

Did the Irish setter breed change in half a century or not? In a topic elsewhere there is a statement  the breed did not change in fifty years.

 

What is your opinion? Did the breed change yes or no, if yes in what aspects (conformation, health, character, working capacities)? Can you document your opinion? Same for no changes in your opinion, can you document that?

 

Here is a kick off with an article on the Derrycarne Irish red setters, bred by Maureen Mc Keever, published in 2003 in The Leitrim Guardian, written by Kevin Mc Manus. Her activities cover a large part of the period mentioned in the statement. She bred more key Irish setters in both show and working nowadays Irish setters. Would these still be able to win - show and/or work?

 

Because there was some interest in Derrycarne history, on request a story is added on a daughter of Derrycarne Harp - Ailean O'Cuchulain. Its entitled Devils Dearest, written as a tribute.  On request as well a story Hartsbourne Flame was added. She was a shower of hail and littersister to IRCH Derrycarne Martini. 

[kristi schrittwieser]

Margaret I only know what the woman who bred my dog told me. She trialed with her dogs for years. We keep in touch today. She no longer trials due to all the controvesy with AKC and the club. All of her dogs were AKC. She let me know right away that the breed had pointer in it, we never discussed the Vizsla. The ISCA really had no right to point the finger at any one after what they created in the show ring. That dog is the farthest thing from the original breed. They were the ones who ruined the breed to begin with. I don't remember everything that she told me but the end result from her a number of field trailers was the ISCA was not happy with their trials being taken over and them losing.

[Christina Gray]

Could not agree more :-) See above. I give up. Some minds are made up and will never get the point because they have read all the answers somewhere on the Internet.

[kristi schrittwieser]

Are you replying to what I wrote Christina.

[Henk ten Klooster]

Not that difficult. You pick a phone, call pioneers of American Red Setters and ask what happened. Thats what I did next visiting them in person. Problem is, most people don't go to direct sources but stick to hearsay. This topic is full of them but luckily quite a few with quality as well, I mean documented facts like the topic is asking.

[kristi schrittwieser]

I can't even believe a US ES was sent to Ireland. They are real pointers more then US IS's. I think both dogs look different then Ireland. I do like the look of the Irish Setter in Ireland and the setting. I like the speed and agility of the US dog. I'll show you a pic of US field english. They are really just about two different dogs I would imagine. I'm not sure you tell me. As I said I know US lines much better. My dog actually had Zansett in her lineage.

http://dogwoodbirddogs.com/

[Pat Aldridge]

Kristi, I breed English Setters & those dogs in that website may be working dogs but they are not the English Setter as we know it. An English Setter I bred was used his entire life as a working dog, never shown, & he was from all imported UK show lines. He certainly didn't resemble the dogs on that website at all...thank Heaven

[kristi schrittwieser]

LOL, I know Pat. Those are field trial dogs. That is what they outcrossed the US red setter with. That is how they got such short hair and that high tail. But some of the hunting Irish Setters are not intense like that. You girl now is beautiful.

[kristi schrittwieser]

Pat can you send me a photo of one of your english. I have seen the UK ES run on videos but not up close.

[Pat Aldridge]

LOL kristi, I am technologically challenged - I don't have videos of my dogs, sorry - I don't even have a cellphone with a camera...

[Pat Aldridge]

The 3 pics below are (in order) his sister Ch Mountshannon Wild Poppy, his grandmother Ch Mountshannon Wild Silk, his son Ch Mountshannon Wild Grouse at Ardross - he's the orange dog.

[kristi schrittwieser]

He is Gorgeous. He has a sloped tail? I do love ES's. The first setters I met were ES's and I knew I was hooked. Those dogs I sent you were big field trial dogs. Here are some US Llewellins. Tell me if they look similar to the ones in the UK.
I didn't get any videos of my dog either. I am also technically challenged,:). If you want to take some great videos for those of us that are not the best with technology get a flip camera. I'm having a ball with it. It takes great videos and its so easy.

http://www.shalgosetters.com/breeding_dogs.htm

[kristi schrittwieser]

Beautiful dogs Pat,
See I don't know why they mess up the setters so badly in the US. They do something different to their heads. Your dogs look great. Not goofy, they look functional, nice backends. Now you no why the hunters completely went the other way.