Male marking inside

[Louise Perry]

Hi, I was horrifield the other day when Reuben peed all over my mums lounge curtains. He had never peed inside at home or never noticed it anywhere else, so why did he do it? My mum has a small female dog who Reuben has known for ages. Was he just being dominant and will this happen in other peoples houses?
How do I deal with situations like this? My mum is so house proud too!

[Louise Perry]

Thanks Sue, it wAs definite marking as he had been in her garden peeing everywhere and then just came in a did a very deliberate pee. Like you say it could be for lots of reasons, tho I suspect on that day just general claiming his territory as he was being very boulshy. So I guess just teaching him not to do it. I did immediately say no and sent him out. Just had a sudden panic that everywhere we go he will
be peeing inside. Gosh I need eyes in the back of my head! And no there had been no other males in the house which I could relate more to his reasoning if there had been. Do teenagers grow out of this then ( along with training obviously)?

[Sue and Cash]

I have heard that neutering later won't fix marking in many cases. Another reason I have to get Cash done sooner than later I guess. He is the right age now but I wanted
to wait till at least 8 months, now I am worried I might wait too long and have the same issue Louise. Some guy with an intact boxer comes into petsmart to shop when I demo there and his dog will mark every few feet all over bags of food and toys etc. He even marked my table! You would think the guy wouldn't bring the dog in the store but I guess he didn't care. I feel for your mom's curtains.

[Ossian]

Is your dog marking territory? Why do you want to get him neutered?

[Sue and Cash]

We are with dozens of dogs on a daily basis and it is too difficult and unsafe to leave him intact Ossian. Too many negative reactions and scuffles involving the intact males. If I had a acre or two to run him where other dogs weren't around I would try to leave him be, but that isn't how life works in the suburban areas of major cities in the US. We rely on dog parks. I feel badly enough about future health issues related to neutering but it is a fairly normal practice here. Even though rare, I lost my first irish setter to prostate cancer which spread to his chest at the age of seven. He was the last male I had intact. And that dog jumped through a living room window to get to my neighbors lab in heat. I know it isn't acceptable to many. But after experiencing daily how often my two friends gordons are bothered by intact and altered dogs, I don't want anyone bothering Cash. He just wants to do his thing and be left alone and I want that as well. He is the birdiest setter I have had thus far. That boy is all over the fields and loving it.

[Susan Stone]

Hi Louise,
You have a young dog going through a typical hormonal surge and you took him to a house where there is a bitch he claims for himself... so he completely forgot his house training. His urge to show off to the bitch was too strong! In future you will be more aware of the risk so this misbehaviour should be a one-off thing. Next time, keep him on a short lead inside someone else's house (even where there are no other dogs) until you are sure he has settled down. You can also place tidbits at 'inviting' corners as dogs will not scent mark areas where they normally eat.
I find it a good idea putting a command to 'freedom to pee' when the dog is outside on the lead. You don't want him to pee every bush or tuft of grass and at the same time get dragged along from one 'piss point' to the next;-)) Also avoid him sniffing when you do not want him to pee - males always first sniff then scent mark. When you give him the 'free to pee' command give him the full length of the lead and allow him a couple of minutes before shortening the lead and moving on.
Off the lead is obviously a different matter - although even then I will sometimes 'shoo' him on is he is getting too intent on something...

[Louise Perry]

Thank you for all your helpful advice, I will definitely keep Reuben on a lead initially at someone elses house and train him that this is not acceptable behaviour.
Also I do stop in peeing all over Nailsea as I don't want him to think he owns the place! He can pee in the fields when off lead. I also tend to walk briskly when he I'd on
lead, so don't let him sniff all the time, I have even found myself saying ep, ep no sniff. Again when off lead he can sniff all he likes ad his time - hope I am not being cruel but it is just naturally what I have done since a small pup.
I am very interested in the idea of 'chemical castration' for lots of reasons, especially as I haven't decided on to neuter or not. Has there been a previous thread on it Sue?
Thank you again everyone

[Susan Stone]

Thanks for the info Sue, I have yet to gather experience with the chemical form but it sounds an excellent idea when not sure if castration is the answer to a problem.

Thank you also for your remark on the negativ effect castrating can have on insecure males. Any aggression due to a dog feeling insecure will not be cured by castration but could make things a lot worse. Unfortunately I have seen this happen in dogs that come to training classes. Some vets and owners take castration to be the sole solution for all problems. It is worth taking all effects into consideration before making that final cut! In some cases the effect of testosterone is beneficial to the dog's behaviour and health.

[Ossian]

Guys - some of you have to get a grip! Sometimes I read the posts and its like "mommy and baby" group.
Oh mine does that... and mine. I do despair at times that these dogs are just not growing up to be normal. this thread is a classic situation because one puppy has peed on the curtains another is going to find itself being neutered "in case" it does that.
I think sometimes these lists are really pushing stuff out of propoertion.

Reading the messages is a very clear indicator of the people who own the dogs (if you but knew it)

Please switch off your computers and get out there with the dog. You will make mistakes, but you will work it out because you are watching and learning WITH your dog and best of all when your dog TELLS you what he wants you will understand not have to come rollicking on a chat list to check if everyone else has done it!!

[Sue and Cash]

Ossian once again you come off very harsh. It is becoming your style and I am sure that isn't your intent, or one hopes not. I am not neutering my dog because he might pee on my curtains. Although that isn't acceptable and is one of many reason people opt to do so. I spend a minimum of two hours a day out in the woods with my dog. Rain, sleet and snow and hellish hot summers. He never misses a day to run and be a dog. And yet I still have time to be on my computer, work 25 hours a week and raise a family. I baby the hell out of my dog and have with every dog I have had. They are a major part of my life. I love to chat with others here about their experiences and seek advice all the time. I am not only with Irish Setters everyday. i am with just about every breed imaginable and many bully breeds as well. I am doing what I have to do and what works for my life. Irish setters pull on leads when young, train all you want, try every collar, they pull when a bird lands in our path, its the breed. They mellow out, they relax a bit more and respond better to training as they age. I find that endearing of the breed. Their joy of life, their excitement to greet each new day like it is the first day of their lives. No breed is perfect. Some have the patience to train their dogs perfectly and others like me just muddle through and enjoy their dog and don't freak out if occassionally they mess up. Mommy and Baby group!! I keep re-reading that and it just gets me more irritated. I enjoy this forum and do not like the idea of someone telling others they can't share their experiences with their dog or ask for help and ideas to hopeful do the best job they can. And do not belittle me for neutering my dog because it isn't acceptable to your standards. It is insulting to assume because a dog would mark is my only reason for neutering. We live in totally different worlds Ossian. And different cultures as well.

[Ossian]

Och look!
Its not the peeing and the pulling, its the analysis I think.

But Susan I would love you more if you didnt martyr yourself every day "rain hail or sleet" for two hours walking your dog. Did you ask the dog what he/ she wants to do? Maybe the dog thinks your crazy. Why spend a whole two hours on one walk? Why not do 15 minutes of fun walking and training in the morning (fit it aeound other stuff) and then at lunch time or when you are next free do a whole session of twenty minutes of training. Not just the heel, close, sit stuff. Name your toys and then teach your dog the names, pick up teddy, fetch the ball. Play seek around your house and local area. Hide one of the kids!! Then in the evening stroll and talk to your dog about your day together. I am guessing rather than a route march for two hours... BTW what do you think about when you are out there?. "Maybe I will put the washer on when I get back, what's for tea, I have to take the car for fuel."

What do you think your dog is thinking about when he or she is walking along with you? I have six, I work full time and I work and show my dogs as well as working in training with other people.

You see this is why I get frustrated. You come onto the list and you ask "what should I do?" the dog is doing this or this and you havent spent time with your dog - ASK the dog! And if your dog isnt telling you what's the matter then you just aint listening or you are not interested.

Fran and Sue and all the other trainers on here will tell you - when they meet your dog (without you telling us) - a great deal about your dog and what it thinks and feels.

That isnt a god given thing. Its just that we play with our dogs, we watch them, we observe and to me you dont do that when you are constantly comparing them or chatting on groups about them.
I hope that isnt harsh!

[Sue and Cash]

We do not march for two hours. He runs, plays, lays in the grass, chases balls, frizbee and I have my lady friends that I hang out with and their dogs.. We walk a half mile at a time with laying about time inbetween and watering breaks.. He isn't on leach, we do leash walking in petstores and on the block. But rarely. Everyone who knows me knows I am there watching my dog, my favorite thing is life is to watch my dog set, flush, and run through the fields. It is why I own a setter. Now do I think about gas in the car and laundry, I guess like most women I do, but that is done in the early morning if you must know. I hardly think asking about my last dogs epilepsy or Cash's newest anal issues is martyrism. I will gracefully bow out in asking for any advice here on. I will continue to enjoy the video's and photos and read about all your dogs. I am far to mature to defend myself to someone I do not know nor feel the need to do so in a public forum. Ossain your way too intense and critical for my taste. And how dare you call some of our dogs abnormal because of the care we give them.

[eva ciechonska]

Dear Ossian.....at last the voice of reason!!!!!! This is a young male going through what young males go through at this age!!!! God help you ladies if you have the same discussion about teenage boys. I hope you don't consider chemical castration with them....though sometimes that might be a better solution than with dogs......!!!!
Let the poor bugger get on with growing up without the need for interference, chemical or otherwise. By the time he is 30 months old he will have sorted himself out. As for the marking, well that can be stopped with a good smack.......and don't go all PC on me for god's sake.
One other thing........castration can help with an over-sexed dog (if you must) but it will not eliminate bad temperament.. A castrated dog will still fight.
Another thing.........castrated dogs are VERY attractive to entire dogs, a bit like in-season bitches. They will pester them and try to dominate them, even mount them. If that is what you want then please go ahead