New 'Eye Problem In Irish'

[Dee Rance]

I have been trying to think of a way to post this...I have been banging on, on this site, about breeders and owners, 'putting their hands up' to a ''new problem'' or even a problem that has been around for a while. So I am putting my ''hands up''
Some people will have see the Blog placed by Carol Gill (thank you Carol for posting this) called ''Crufts 2009'' in this blog it states that there is a leaflet supplied by ISAE with reference to a 'new eye problem' in Irish setters. It does not say which lines, or who own the dogs, this problem has been found in..Carol asked me if I knew!! (all three people involved have stated that ''If asked we would not lie'' we would say who we were).
I have one of the 3 ''affected'' dogs, 3 doesn't sound much but when you think that only 7dogs have been tested then this number is quite high.
The dogs have what we think is akin to or is CSNB (Congenital Stationary Night Blindness) which is found in Breards only, at the moment, THIS IS NOT PRA.
The dogs in question have the problem in varying degrees Jas being the worst one affected, she is clinically blind at night.
People have already said that they feel that this comes down a particular line, and named the dog...
PLEASE LETS NOT START SLINGING MUD AT DIFFERENT DOGS, OR ABOUT DIFFERENT BREEDERS. although my bitch and her sister (the other affected bitch) do have many famous dogs, in there lines the THIRD dog has a very different male line, so NO MUD SLINGING PLEASE I am putting this on this site, to get a conversation going, and to see if there are people who have noticed a problem, which I have to say is VERY difficult to see, I have heard of people with totally blind animals that didn't know their dogs were blind, if it happens slowly the dogs adapt to their surroundings, and these, affected dogs, CAN see during the day...
I must reiterate that a breeder CAN NOT legislate against something that they do not know about, and this comes from very diverse lines. If you feel that your dog has any kind of vision problem please ask, where ever you are, this could be a very widespread problem.
Lets now discuss this and see if we can get to the bottom of it ASAP....lets not let it linger and spread through this lovely breed, it isn't PRA, or something painful like Bloat, but it must be very distressing for the animal and I know that it is distressing for the owner involved. We all love this breed or we wouldn't be on this site, and this site is so good to ''get the word out'' and lets see if you can get this eradicated.

[Henk ten Klooster]

Dee, the difficulty to spot this blindness, is an extra reason to keep your eyes open for information that everyone can spot. Like pedigrees involved.

The blind stud dog Bradley is inbred to Kerryfair Night Fever and his sisters Kerryfair Charm and Kerryfair Solitaire. Last make 50% of the pedigree, first 12,5%. Source The Irish Red Setter Pedigree Collection http://setters.applegrove.net/setters/pedigree.php?Id=10272.

This does not prove they are responsible, but knowing this info could be helpful towards more owners participating in testing schemes. Numbers shown in Rosie’s ISAE post are very low.

Good to read the update of the Irish Setter Association of England http://www.isae.co.uk/PDF/Setter%20Shot%202009%20Health%20pages%20f...

My question remains was this and other info provided by Rosie Dudley of the ISAE sent and subsequently published in all club magazines worldwide?

Another question mark is why relevant information on the blind stud dog was not published, although a breeder -present in this website meanwhile- was aware and asked the committee of the Dutch club four years ago to take steps. Breeding suspect lineage was continued by others.

This documents a huge information-problem.

[Catherine Carter]

Henk,
I would like to understand exactly what you are saying....are you saying that a stud dog(Bradley) presumably in your country has been used at stud after he showed signs of blindness? Are you saying that the owner knew and yet let the dog be used? If this is the case I think the whole pedigree of this dog should be openly published so that lines of descent can be studied by geneticists. I am sure that relevant Clubs have been informed but this has not come down to breeders yet/ Or am I the only one NOT to know ?

[Henk ten Klooster]

Catherine most info is in posts above. The stud dog was diagnosed blind at old age. That is exactly the problem: blind for blindness. Dee well explains above how that is possible. You can see the pedigree by clicking on the link.

[colette tuite]

Henk ,I agree looking at Bradleys pedigree that you could say he was inbred to Kerryfair night fevers sisters ,but i dont agree that you can say he is to kerryfair night fever himself.You could just as easily say that via hamrod colissa he is line bred to sowerhill sarah /wendover jeeves as sowerhill sadie is a sister of sahib.If you are looking for a line that ocurs on both sides of the pedigree it may not be the obvious one.In this case because there is such an overlap of matching lines on both sides more information would be required to make an informed conclusion.
I would have thought that the eye problems would have turned up sooner through people doubling up on kerryfair night fever directly if he was implicated as there was extensive breeding to his lines!

[Henk ten Klooster]

Colette you are correct, it should read inbred to sisters of KFN, himself adding 12,5 %.

Caspians Modesty is inbred to KNF
http://setters.applegrove.net/setters/pedigree.php?Id=52322

Your opinion that more eyeproblems would have turned up is at first glimpse right (opinion) but blind studdog Bradleys facts documents another option. Lets hope it isnt.

[Catherine Carter]

Thank you Henk, I had a look at Bradley's pedigree.
I don't understand why you compare it with Caspians Modesty as I always understood that she was suffering with CSNB and not late onset PRA.....These are different diseases!

[eva ciechonska]

Dee. Is Modesty suffering from CSNB? I understood there was a questionmark over this as her daytime vision was also deteriorating. Can you advise please.

[Dee Rance]

Catherine
It has been seen by Prof Bedford and myself that Jas is now going blind during the day, and he cannot rule out CSNB, I think he is also ruling IN this 'could well' be a new type of LOPRA, the only difference is, that this type cannot be seen by the ophthalmic examination. So yes this pedigree is connected to Jas, one name jumps out at me, but I am not in a position to comment on it, although some have already, and I tend to agree with them, but not KNF there are some that are behind him that come up as an individual, plus the litter mates as well, as Colette has said, I cannot say one dog or another, this is not the way to go but if we could get a genetic test then this is the way to go, it will take the guesswork out of it all, this must be our first and foremost aim, and we get all our breeding stock tested and do not use anything that is affected, at the moment all we can do is get their eyes tested before breeding, this is exactly what I did with my Saffy she had opthalmic + ERG tests before I breed her, which she was clear for both tests, and then hope that all is well. It would have been so much easier if there was a genetic test, you could rest easy. knowing that you were not going to pass something like blindness on.