Tips on dummy training

[Ilona & Gina]

HI everyone,

Hope to get some advice on whether to do dummy training or not.
As we do not find any gun dog club around Perth, we have to rely on our ability as self-learners.

Anton & Gina are now 9 months old.
We are no hunters; Gina & Anton are our pets. As they are littermates, we train and walk them separately, (a tip from this forum by-the-way - thank you). And, of course training is part of our every-day life.

Both are obedient, very well behaved and good on and off the lead, while Gina is a tick more reliable than Anton (boy/girl thing, maybe?). Joggers, bicycles, other dogs, even the birds on the beach are no problem. Both are great outdoor companions and a pleasure to be with.

However, I am wondering if the usual training (sit – stay – heel – come – bring it – drop it and so on…) is enough. As Anton is my partner's dog, I can only speak for Gina. She does all the things, brings and drops balls and toys, but she looks at me as if to say – “Yes, I do it, but it’s boring.” But aren't they too young for the real challenges such as agility?

As we are no hunters, we would be happy about some tips how to give them some more stimulation that suits their age – what to do or whether to do such training at all? Does training awaken their hunting instincts, or does it rather channel them?

Are there books? I would be grateful for tips!

Ilona, Rockingham Western Australia

[Susan Stone]

Great idea to do dummy training... to keep them busy and challenged. Teaching them to search for the dummy using their noses will keep them out of other mischief;-))

Books? I'd say any training book for Retrievers is a good idea. The Retrievers are taught to react to hand signals and be biddable - that certainly wont do a setter any harm! Have Fun!

btw teaching to retrieve does not waken hunting instincts

[Ilona & Gina]

Thank you, Susan, we've already started.

Socks tied into a ball are wonderful dummies for a start.

I hide them, they find them, but they cannot eat the tidbits; they have to give me the socks first.
We are learning more and more games at home and outdoors, next step is to buy some real dummies.
They are good at finding their stuff already..and getting better. We are having fun!

Ilona

[ursula wilby]

Agility is great, but you need to have some basic training first and foremost.
You do seem to have that...but recall etc needs to work even when excitement is running high. But before starting on agility, you should definatly X-ray your dogs to find out that they are OK for this kind of work. And at least in Sweden, X-raying is done once the dog is over 12 months of age.

tracking is great fun for all dogs, in fact anything that means they will have to use their nose + brains.
Good luck with them!

[Ilona & Gina]

Hi Ursula,

Thank you for your feedback. You are right. Here in Australia, dogs have to be at least 12 months of age - Gina is definitely too young for that. We do some "living room" agility though, around the chairs and under the table, with blankets as tunnels and bottles for slaloms, but just for fun and never competitive.

We started with dummy training, but on our own. I put a ball into an old sock to make it fly. Now I am searching all literature I can find - as I don't want Gina to become focused on food. Although I trained her with food rewards, we use less and less; in fact, she hardly needs any food rewards these days.

Can that being focused on food turn into a problem with dummy training?

Ilona

[ursula wilby]

Personally I train ALL dogs with food and find "focused on food" far preferable to for instance "focused on balls".
Food as a reward has a calming effect rather than a "speeding" effect that you can get from thowing balls etc.
The best way to reward is to take a mix of both...pick the reward-type that is best suited for what you are training.
I use food-rewards ALL the time, regardless of how far up the cometition-ladder I am. Even my obedience champions would get plenty of food reward during training. In fact I would work with the "jack-pot-effect" at times.
A specific task truly well done...WOW there it is!
Not just an 8:th of a meatball but 4-5!
Bingo!
And then stop the training.
Maximum reward for maximum performance.
I can not see that having done a job for a long time (and now being capable of doing it well) should produce less as far as rewards are concerned.

Personally I still want to get paid even after have been working for 33 years!

But I will ask for longer attentionspans before the reward is given. In championclass that will mean working through a whole program when it comes to competitions.
But after that, the reward is HUGE!!!!!!
And yes...in my case it has always been food.

[Pat]

Great to hear, Christine, that you are starting to teach your two Setters to retrieves. You will find it very enjoyable, both for them and yourself, and rewarding.
I have trained my R/White boy to do all sorts of dummy retrieves and also from water and he absolutely loves the training. His speciality is the blind retrieves whereby he has to both air and ground scent plus the water retrieves.
He has been doing all manner of gundog training for the last six years approximately such as his natural quartering and then the various types of retrieves, plus even some HPR work. You will find that as you progress they will become more obedient and steady. One training tip you could try is to imagine in your mind a clock. Sit your Setter in the middle and then proceed to throw some dummies over their heads behind them, to the right and then to the left. Then you go and pick them up - hence teaching them two things in that not everything thrown is for them and also that they don't run in.
You will have loads of fun as you and they get more adept at retrieving. It is very rewarding when you send your dog to fetch the dummy and then they retrieve and present it to hand sitting nicely in front of you.
Good luck.
Pat

[Ilona & Gina]

Hello Pat,

Thank you for that great picture! This young man has this happy grin...wonderful.

I printed your clock trick, and now we are trying. But we are still learners and there is a long way to go. She thinks as soon as the dummy drops she is supposed to shoot off and get it. But we'll get there. Thank you for that tip anyway!

Ilona

[Pat]

Hi Ilona,
Yes, Ray is a very happy boy and does all manner of gundog training 'work' - variety seems to suit him.
Why don't you email me privately and we can then have a good 'chat' about the 'working' training for our Setters.
Best wishes,
Pat

[Pat]

Thought you might like to see my R/White boy in action on his retrieving of his new style dummy.
Pat

[Pat]

Another retrieve from today.
Pat

[Pat]

Hi Barbara,
Thank you for your compliments which I assure you are very much appreciated.
These fields are a Setter heaven for quartering and all gundog training - along with the romps of course.
The dummy is a new rugby shaped canvas dummy that is weighted to represent a hen pheasant. You can also get a bit smaller partridge weighted one as well. When thrown they bounce much as a pheasant or partridge does when shot and fall to the ground.
These dummies can be purchased from www.workingdogcompany.co.uk and they are very reasonably priced. I have found the new type dummy to be excellent and I am now awaiting a road kill to enhaunce it for my boy to get the feel of feathers in his mouth.
Are you training your Setter(s) for retrieves and other types of gundog work? I do believe it is important to keep the 'working' side of our lovely Breed alive, whether or not you actually intend to participate in the Field events or not. When my boy, Ray, attends any of the working events or we are just out gundog training you can see his brain go into working mode and he absolutely loves the outings with his 'mum'.
I hope you have a good weekend and thank you again for the compliment.
Pat

[Pat]

Hi Barbara,
Ray is now 6 1/2 years old, will be 7 at end of October this year.
Sounds like Harry is already when versed in 'hunting'/'scenting'. It is when they are 'focused' and you can see their brains are in 'working' mode that it is delightful to watch.
Dummy work is a great way to both use their energy up, keep their brains active and also be more obedient to you.
You could also take along an ordinary oblong canvas dummy to start your lessons with as they do not bounce and, therefore, do not encourage your dog(s) to play around. You may find that Harry and Alfie will only retrieve their own dummies to start with but given time they will retrieve anyone's that are thrown for them to retrieve.
There are so many types of retrieve work that you can teach your boys. Ray's favourite is the 'blind' (hidden) retrieve where he has to use his nose to hunt for it. Also he loves to retrieve from water.
I know some people will say that Setters do not (or should not) retrieve and that is correct if you are going to enter into Field Trials but I find that if I am taking Ray over fields for an hour or so and he has quartered the fields then it is better to let him do other types of gundog work to add interest to his outings. You know what they say, variety is the spice of life.
I do believe that Setters can be taught to do most of the gundog work that HPR's are trained to do and I have taken my boy on HPR Training days and have been warmly welcomed by the Clubs.
Barbara, why don't you email me privately and we can chat away about training our boys to our heart's content. I do like 'talking' gundog training to my Setter friends.
Good luck with Harry and Alfie's training sessions. I will be very interested in hearing how both they and you are getting on.
Have a good bank holiday. I am off with Ray tomorrow on a Bluebell Walk for Charity with a bar-b-q afterwards.
Pat