New to breeding and looking for a stud

[Susie Warren]

Hi,

 

I'm really hoping that someone on here can help me.  We've been looking to breed our 3 1/2 yr old bitch Royston Duchess (Dam:  Dalriach Deveron Lass, Sire: Lockenna Olympic Flame). 

 

We don't show her - she's a family pet who spends most of her time covered head to toe in mud, but because of this we've found it difficult to find hier a stud.  Obviously she has papers and is in good health and from talking to people and looking around Dalriach seems to have produced a ridiculous number of fantastic dogs, so I don't think her pedigree is poor. 

 

Poppy is a mix of working and show IRWS but looks more working strain. 

 

We've spoken to a few breeders now and have met some resistance as people have been wanting to make sure we have our eyes open and know what we're letting ourselves in for.  So i just wanted to say to clear up any questions later that

 

1) We are not looking to make money - this is a hobby/ passion for us and our dogs are loved family pets not money making machines.

2)  We know we will probably loose money

3)  We've checked out the tests we need

4)  There are 6 of us who will all be chipping in together - my works part time, my dad works a very light shift pattern and the rest of us are all flexible so we will be able to to be around for the puppies when they are young

5)  We have a seperate space they can have which they are free to destroy

6)  By breeding we have a responsibility to these puppies until they die - meaning we'd obviously take them back at anytime.

7)  We are confident that we would be able to home the puppies - and if not then we are ultimately responsible.

 

So I've laid it out on the line - we love our dogs and we'd love to have the experience of breeding from Poppy and if anyone out there would be kind enough to help us out with finding a stud dog, or has a stud dog and would be prepared to meet with us we'd really appreciate it.

 

We're in London/ Essex borders (England)

 

Thanks

Susie Lyus

[Christiane Lohmann]

Hi Susie !

You sound very sweet and innocent...sorry if these are the wrong words, english is not my mother tongue. Please take it as a positive comment.
Breeding your bitch is not only talking about the first few weeks of having puppies in the garden. And not presenting pictures of mom and pups along with thousands of pink panthers-poo the bear- miss piggy etc. in the whelping box, to show how much you love her. And not ensuring the puppy buyers that you feel responsible for your pups all life long.
All these things are nice and should belong to the ethical codex of every breeder...with or without pedigrees...be it cats, dogs or cows.
but breeding your bitch and bearing in mind that she is an IRWS...you should be very much aware of the responsability towards this rare breed. It is a gundog breed and it was created to join hunters and do a propper job. With that all in the background, it would be a pity to minimize the breed to a toy or a svarowsky diamont for people who already own everything else. So apart from the health factor (HD, CLAD), her temperament (devilish clown I guess ?) and of course, her exterieur (NOT the show value) but the correct anatomy are important.
I wish you all the best and lots of healthy pups and furthermore great homes, that at least entertain your pups their life long. ;-))) And maybe check their health status (HD !!!) and report it to you as a responsable breeder, although some results might hurt you. And maybe, maybe one or the other will find the idea interesting to work with your pup and bring it into public. Obedience, agility, shows...TRIALS !!! This would make me really happy and I am looking forward to meet your pups one day.
Concerning a stud dog, don't fuss around and ask thousand people to get thousand answers;-))) Just ask "Lady Dalriach " herself, I am sure Margaret will give you a good helping hand !

good luck
Christiane from Germany

[Susie Warren]

Thanks for your reply, your English is excellent - better than most of the English Children I teach (and I teach 11-19)

We've been putting a lot of thought into how we would home the puppies - I'm not looking for people to fall in love with adorable puppies. We need people that are willing to walk for miles through muddy countryside chasing an enthusastic setter, who just loves to run.

Poppy has a fantastic temprement - anything less and I wouldn't even consider breeding, training wise she doesn't hunt (it's not something that personally I would do, but I'm very grateful for the generations of hunters that have worked the setter and helped keep it alive until today). Poppy did take agility classes but her over bounding enthusiasm and short attention span meant that she generally prefered to choose her own course, but always enjoyed herself. I had to stop taking her due to my horse commitments and my dad was struggling to keep up with her. Although I'm keen to get my new pup competing in horse and hound (a show jumping round thats followed by the dog jumping the course with the rider as a handler) when their old enough.

I read somewhere that unless you are able to help the breed you should not be able to breed. It is for this reason that we'll be taking her along to the British IRWS club's open show in the beginning of March to have her conformation checked out and make sure that she is a dog worth breeding, and not going to harm the future of the breed in anyway.

I am looking into the Kennel clubs accredited breeder scheme but where we are able to be accredited or not we would want to be considered as ethical breeders. The IRWS is an endangered breed and I hope that we may be able to go some way to helping increase the numbers.

Thanks for your help

Susie

[Deborah McNay]

Hi Susie,

Have you talked to Margaret? She owned the Dalriach Kennel. She is very supportive of people new to the breed, she might be able to help you. It sounds like you know what you are getting in to :)

Deborah from United State - who also owns a Dalriach dog

[Ossian]

Hi Deb
I do think its quite sad that Susie has met with "resistance"

We are such a small pool that it would be useful to encourage OPEN thinking on breeding

Margaret and Kaen I would have thought would be happy to talk it through

[Yvonne H]

Hi Susie,
I don't have anything to input to the above discussion as I know that if you manage to talk to Margaret, I'm sure she will point you in the right direction.However, I shall hopefully be competing at the open show in March and look forward to meeting you there (my IRWS has a lot of Dalriach in her). Don't ask me to give you advice on the conformation or the breeding ability of your dog though, as I am quite new to the breed myself and also have an awful lot to learn. My bitch Tullamore Tiggywinkle (Bess) is 2 years old, so the dilemma of whether to breed or not has not arisen just yet.
All the best in your quest,
Yvonne

[Susie Warren]

Thanks so much everyone, I was starting to feel a bit down by the whole process but I did manage to speak to Margaret over the phone right back in October and she was fantastic. She asked me to drop her an email but I must have taken down her email address wrong. I will message her through here and see what she has to say. One piece of advice which was echoed on here which I'm just going to go by is to have an idea of the reason why you want to breed and know any flaws your dog has to that when you breed you can choose a suitable stud that will hopefully complement and enhance her. But most importantly if 100 people say no but 1 person says yes and has a quality dog then thats all I need.

I'm really looking forward to the open show - I'm not going to be showing Poppy (although she did win the ladybird cup at the Irish setter rescue group's fun show, against about 70 other setters!) but her technique isn't quite there she spent most of the time laying on her back with her legs open and in the air flashing herself at the judge!


Thanks so much everyone and I'll be at the open show as well as hopefully crufts so would love to talk to anyone who's around!

susie

[Margaret Sierakowski]

Have you asked Karen Lockwood (owner/breeder of Lockenna Olympic Flame) for advice and suggestions? She has the sister of your bitch too
Karen is now living near Woodbridge in Suffolk, so not too far to go for a visit

[Margaret Sierakowski]

Susie, The best person to talk to would be Sheila Walton (Gallybob) who lives not to far from you in Essex. She has a good young male dog, and I believe she may already be aware that you are looking for a stud dog.. Do you have her phone number?
Good luck with breeding your bitch, she was from a nice litter with an interesting pedigree. One of her litter sisters is a good working IRWS, Her grandmother is Ital and Int FTCh Pepperstown Polly, and her sire Lockenna Olympic Flame was a useful dog who worked on shoots. But most of the litter went to pet homes so wont be bred from. I would be quite pleased to see something coming from that breeding. Of course you will need to get her hip scored and eye tested before breeding, and quite soon the KC will be asking for both parents to be VWD clear as well as CLAD clear
I wish I could help but I am a long way from you in NE Scotland

[Susie Warren]

HI Margaret, thanks yet again for your help. I have now contacted Sheila and Karen to ask for some advice and see if either of them will be at the open show which I'm taking Poppy along to watch.

I'm on the case with hip scoring - I can't seem to get the details for the lady who does it without GA so will be speaking to our vet about it getting it done soon as well as her eye test.

I'll keep you all updated but fingers crossed there are no major flaws with Poppy and we'll find her a lovely stud who'll help her produce some gorgeous puppies!

Susie

[Margaret Sierakowski]

Susie, I know from talking to you on the phone last year that you and your family have thought carefully about breeding, and that you really do listen to advice.
I'm sorry if you have met with some discouragement. We have all been first time breeders , and I can remember that I had some similar experiences to you, even had difficulty buying a good bitch to start with.
If Trudy Walsh and Alison Bennett hadnt helped and encouraged me, I might have given up
If you can find a good stud dog, the owner may be a good mentor too.

I think your biggest problem , like most first time breeders , will be finding good homes for your first litter. IRWS are a relatively unknown breed, and puppy buyers tend to go to established and well known breeders.
Even well known breeders sometimes find themselves with puppies still unsold at four or five months.
So you must be prepared for getting on with advertising your puppies as soon as they are born (the KC register, Eileen Walker's website, the Irish Setter website that will also advertise IRWS, your local paper and local vets etc) and also dont expect them all to have left by 8 weeks. Some could be around until four or five months, and they need to be contained , so it helps if you have a kennel, large pen or crates to hold them at night and when nobody is at home
If you and your family can cope with this, you should be OK
Also be very tough with vetting your puppy buyers - IRWS are not for everybody. They must go to homes with people who can give them enough outlets for their energy, and have secure gardens, preferably with 6ft fences! And IRWS dont like being left alone all day while their owners are atwork, they get bored , unhappy and destructive,and sometimes noisy too. Be wary of first time buyers who know nothing about the breed, and have only seen a picture and think they are beautiful! Or just an Irish Setter in a different colour variation!
I'm also wary of families with babies and toddlers. The wife may be home all day, but it can be hard to walk an IRWS on a lead with toddlers in a buggy or walking . And if the dog takes off, she cant easily go after it with a toddler in tow. Also a young boisterous male IRWS can easily knock a small child over
The best homes are often middle aged people whose children have grown up, and even better, young retired people who are home all day and enjoy spending hours walking the dog!

[Susie Warren]

Hi everyone,

Just wanted to say that Poppy did us so proud on Sunday - we took her along to the IRWSC's open show in Oxford - she was so well behaved. She usually has quite a short attention span and can meet new situations with over bounding and uncontrollable enthusiasm, but she was an absolute pro. Ok so she did break into a small sprint towards my boyfriend whilst my brother was holding her on a loose lead wrapped around his tea holding wrist - but that was human error and she was just doing what she thought we wanted her to.

We didn't show her as she is really a pet and we know nothing about the showing world - but we were keen to get some advice on her conformation and what to look for - and we were really pleased with what we found out. Poppy apparently has great angles on her back end and her heads also a very good shape, she's a pretty little bitch (only at a dog show could this be a compliment) and has got excellent balance and proportions. We were told by a few different breeders that she would've given a lot of the bitches in the ring a very good run for their money. So we were really pleased and are now just hoping her VWD and Hip scores come back clear as well.

We did have an offer of a stud dog for her from a very established kennels and I'll be giving them a call to have a chat about conditions and restrictions etc. so hopefully if all goes to plan we may have puppies before the summer.

Fingers crossed and I'll keep you all informed - we might be off to crufts next weekend to meet some more people!

Thanks for all your help

Susie x

[Susie Warren]

Great News - Poppy's come into season and should be off to see her Stud next week, she'll be seeing Gallybob Gold Standard who is a gorgeous dog, so fingers crossed it all goes well. Will keep you all posted on our journey to first time breeding!