naughty boy!

[Nicky Vangalis]

Hi all,

Ollie has been doing well of late, but he's almost 8 months old and he's been exhibiting signs of being a bit of a teenager.  Few days ago I saw his, erm, 'friend' for the first time when he was playing - I've always been told that's a male trying to dominate so I stopped play and waited for him to calm down.  He's having longer runs and walks than ever but I just can't seem to wear the boy out!  He chewed a cable in the kitchen in the five minutes I left him unattended the other day; when I let him off in the fenced field near our house some people even turn their nose up at him because he's so bouncy when all I know is he's trying to say hello, so sometimes I find myself having to walk him on lead in the park which he hates as he so desperately loves to run!  I don't know, am just having a bit of a hard time with him at the moment. 

My fiance is amazing and takes him out when I have to work late etc so he's never neglected, we play with him and everything.  We spoke to the vet and they looked at his diet and said it's okay, but I am just having a bit of a stressful time with him last few weeks and it's making me sad.  Anyone give me some advice to help me through as there is no way it's his fault or anything like that, maybe it's just me and stresses from other parts of life are starting to trickle over and he just adds to it!  Please help as I do not want to become one of those owners who shouts at their dogs all the time which there seems to be a lot of down here.  I love him to pieces (we both do) and want to do right by him, but I need a bit of advice on what wears your boys out!  Vet said to neuter him but I'm really really loathe to do that as I've heard too many bad things.

[Petros]

Neutering him does nothing if you cannot manage the relationship between you two.
The idea is not shouting at the dog. that puts you in a weak position. Now I am not an expert and I still struggle with my 7month, He barks at me and tries to bite me when he puts on a tantrum. Thats only because I purshue him untill I dont get it my way. If I say sit and he doesnt. I walk to him and make him sit and give him a pat.
The walking on a lead is not somthing that he should hate. If he pulls teach him not too. get a slip lead walk him az you change direction instantly give him a zap. he will get the idea in 2 minutes and walk next to you like he was trained for years. tho the change of direction is fast, and comes with a correction. if the slip lead doesnt do the job. then use a choke chain. really the name for the choke chain is not the right one for the way they are used, but whata heck.

The idea is that you get it your way. no matter what... too much praise and affection can be seen az a submission by the dog, so cut down on it.

Be arrogant with the dog. I dont mean hit him. but act like you are the boss. when you ask him to do somthing he should do it no matter what, or who is around. if not make him do what you asked. say the command once, dont repeat.
by arrogant I mean, the dog should be you least priority when you are around him. he should pay attention to you, and ask permission not you constantly keeping him out of trouble. Then you will be all that should matter to him. Not other dogs around, no chewing....

and talk to Fran Griffin to get you some contacts... Its much better see things in person with and experienced handler than the forum.

[Ilona & Gina]

First of all, don't worry. We all go through these stages; it seems to be the teenage phase, and it may take a while. Gina chewed through some computer cords, and Anton jumped on the dinner table and was darned proud of it! These two reduced me to tears at times...

In my experience, some people turn up their noses just because their are Irish setters. No matter how badly behaved other dogs are - the Irish setter is "bouncy - stupid - silly", name it. We had a problem with Gina jumping up at people, and she wouldn't learn! People said "she's an Irish setter. They are stupid." These remarks hurt.

The worst thing, I tensed up as soon as we approached people. And she sensed it, which made it worse. I't a vicious cycle, really. You try so hard to prove that they are "good" setters.

You are right. Dogs seem to sense every of our moods. When I feel p....y, bet that Gina acts up.

Try not to tense up when you approach people and their dogs (haha, easier said than done). You could teach Ollie (sweet name!) to stay with you until you release him, first at a very quiet place without distraction. Then around some very understanding people. Let him walk "by me" until you passed the people. Try to lure him by your side with tasty treats 'til the behaviour is hardwired (may take some weeks). Then lots of praise - well done! Be patient and try not to yell at little Ollie, ok? I am sure he's a fantastic little mate and he will be fine.

Maybe there is a nice place where you, Ollie and your finance(e?) can have a good little family run without your tensing up?

Don't be sad. It will work out.
I'd love to know how you are doing. Keep us posted!

[Nicky Vangalis]

Thanks for all of your advice. It's good to know he's not the only one who's done things like that! And I don't want to paint him out as some bad dog off the wires. When he's at home he's good, he will sit (mostly) when I ask him to, but he's developed a bit of a foot fetish and the only way he stops is when I shout no as he doesn't respond when I stay 'no' in an assertive voice. I don't like that I'm raising my voice at all!

Ilona those are some really good ideas with regards to him running off lead. Thing is I think he's used to the freedom of running so when he's on the lead he pulls a lot. I stop and pull him back but he's so desperate to get in the field but sometimes there are people playing cricket in there and I don't let him in as I saw some other guy get yelled at a few weeks ago for letting their dog in the field when they were playing. Grrr. Yes I have started to tense when I see other people - I think it goes back to about 6 or 7 years ago, I used to have a rescue xbreed and it turned very aggressive towards people. Ollie is so not that dog but because he jumps up I get stressed because he doesn't stop it. Now at home if he jumps up he responds to a hand signal to stop so I know he's got it in him, but when we are outside it's a totally different ball game. Like the minute he walks out the door he forgets all his training!

Yes you're also right Ilona, it hurts when people say 'oh look at that stupid setter running around'. Actually he's a very bright dog and my experience of setters is they are just stubborn and bouncy, heehee! That's why I love them so much. And I love Ollie to pieces, but this chewing of cables and stuff frightens me because one day he could chew through something plugged in (which he oddly never has, it only seems to be stuff on top of a work surface that he chews, we clear it but some evenings we overlook something and it's gone in the morning!)

I'm a bit wary of choke chains purely because I was always told they are dangerous and if used incorrectly can strangle a dog. Maybe some of you can give you opinions on the best type of training leads for an outdoor walk - not a leather one as they rub my hands!

Thanks guys, I don't want people to think Ollie's a bad dog - goodness he is so far from it! Just having some issues that I want to tackle now before they become habitual.

[Louise Perry]

Hi Nicky, I can empathise with you at the moment as I am going through the same thing with Reuben who is 10 months old. You have probably seen my post 'is it an age thing'.
I found that Reuben has got really boulshy (sp?) and is running around as tho he owns the place and everyone in it! So I have been quite aloof with him at home and only give him attention/ fuss when I say so and make sure I follow through with every command I give him ESP as gone deaf on the sit one. If he gets carried away and really cheeky at home then he had had some time outs in his crate until calmer. It also helps me to stop get wound up and therefore shouting and losing control and everything escalating. I do raise my voice at Reuben and tell him off when he has doesn't someting really bad and I don't see the harm in that as long as you are in control and not constantly screeching at them (also
like some people in my area). I too saw reuben's 'friend' for the first time when he was playing in the woods and actually bent down to pick up what I thought was a long pink flower or something - I was so shocked as never seen it fully out before and didn't realise it was so big!!! Haha, got to laugh...
On walks I have been putting Reuben on and off the lead more even when in the fields as I wanted him to know I controlled his freedom regardless of where it was ie field or park/ pavement. It helps as now he doesn't just automatically assume that he will be let off and free to play at certain areas, he has to listen to me when I decide.I do call him to me and day 'here' and treat him walking by my side for a few steps and then say 'off you go'. I do this also when I see a distraction, ie person and it is improving. And I regulary say 'this way', to try and stop him running off to say another dog/person. This does not always work (ESP when dogs) but again is getting better. Yesterday I actuallymanaged to keep him in a down, stay position whilst another dog passed us (off lead in a field) and was so pleased as a real break through for us.

I use a gentle leader head collar for the pulling as I was getting so wound up and even slapped Reuben on his rump on one walk! I know that was very wrong but I had reached my limit and thought this is crazy. I do walk him without too and he can be really good but I dont se to be getting anywhere with the stop start, change direction etc methods. He will sit when I stop but then just pulls again when walking and he isn't that interested in treats either. I would love to
live near Fran and her show me how to do it. In the meantime the head collar is great and no more slaps on the rump!
I too have had stupid comments about setters etc and can't believe how some people think it is okay to tell you how bonkers they are. And it is usually the people who think it is okay whilst their own little yappy dogs are jumping up all over you. But that's okay because they are small and obviously are just being friendly... Ignore them, they have no
idea on what they ate missing out on and I think they are jealous because of the Setter being so stunning to look at.
Anyway sorry to rattle on and remember it is a phase that we will get through but just have to be on top on them with their basic training at all times. And hey it is okay to raise your voice from time to time and does stop them in their tracks when needed. Keep us updated. Oh and I am
not keen to neuter Reuben either but haven't made a decision as yet.
Louise

[Teresa]

Hi,
First of all, Ollie's NOT a bad dog... He's a teenager Irish Setter full of joy and life! Even if he's giving you a hard time now, I'm sure you'll both get trought it, and in the end, you'll get the greatest dog in the world... Pitanga was the worst teenager dog I've ever met.... I even had a friend who was convinced she'd grow up into an agressive uncontrollable dog... All his life, this friend had rotweillers and they were always impecably trained... I can proudly tell you that naughty teenager Pitanga has grown into a lovely adult that keeps embarrassing my friend because she behaves so much better than his dogs now :). I can also tell you that got her to this point only by following the great advices I keep reading here in ES
You just need to have patience and persistence, Ollie will get there!

As for the choker collar... I have another dog that loves to chew up other dogs collars, so after I don't know how many collars, I got all my other dogs chokers because he can't chew on them... I thought that if I got them, I might as well try them out... when they are well used they work, but it's really hard to use them correctly, it takes a lot of patience and practice before you can use them without stressing your dog! They give punishment and reward, the punishment being the choke and the reward the release, and the trick is to get the dog realising there is a release, but if your dog gets scared and pulls out of fear, he gets punished anyway, wich can be very stressful!
As I said, my dogs all have chokers, but I always use them in non-choking mode, so they work as an ordinary collar (and this way they are actually very confortalbe if they don't pull).
There are breeds where they work perfectly, but I really don't think our long sensitive neck Setters are one of those breeds... If you feel you absolutely need help in the non-pulling I think you should check out head collars rather than chokers, we have some discussions about those in the forum!