More questions about COI

[Margaret Sierakowski]

Are there any national Kennel Clubs or breed clubs which have upper limits on COI? What happened with the Dutch proposal of 5%? Was this implemented? Which kennel clubs keep data on COIs?

Are there any other breed clubs or kennel clubs which may be considering doing this?

[Tania ..danwish-irishsetters]

My first IRWS died at 5 yrs from AIHA . I have just found out his COI was 33% .
I dont know if this was a result of his very high COI but it broke my heart to lose him . When I do breed from my Irish I would certainly take into account what the COI might be as anything we can do to breed healthy dogs has to be considered . I accept that other factors must be looked at as I wouldn't like to lose the breed type either .

[Margaret Sierakowski]

Thanks Wanda. Can you tell me the name of the Dutch professor? Can I find what he wrote on line?

[eva ciechonska]

Margaret.  The problems I encountered during my small amount of research was the variation in COI calculation for the same dogs over the same spectrum of generations.  Most programmes use the Wright's formula but even with that people are getting different results.  Some programmes are using the Hardiman's formula and again there are discrepancies.  I have had correspondence with one breeder who has had the COI calculation for her own dogs done independently and has come up with a result that is almost half that done by another website???????  Needless to say she is sticking with hers.....I would too.  The UK KC have confirmed that they will have a definite idea when their own site will be up and running by the end of this month (I believe).  I would think for UK breeders the KC programme would be the one to use.  As for the Dutch Scientist who advocates not going above 1% at every mating.........well dream on.  The only way we would be able to achieve AND maintain that would be by outcrossing to other breeds.  THAT would be interesting, especially as other breeds are subject to genetic problems not seen in Setters!!!!  What a minefield that would be.............

Interesting the Dutch Club are going to discuss making the 5% COI advisory rather than mandatory.  Does this mean the Dutch breeders are also finding it difficult to implement and maintain it?

 

[Tania ..danwish-irishsetters]

I am not sure that there is an answer to this yet but are the COI's variable due to different programme's people are using or the data that is being used .
My program uses Wright's COI of inbreeding but I have manually put in the anchestors myself mainly to 16 Generations on some dogs but would like to get to 32. Still working on this database .
The IRWS have published COI on pedigrees for their dogs . Which program have they used and it will be interesting to see how the UK KC programs may differ from breeders findings on COI .

[Margaret Sierakowski]

Yes, the COIs on the IRWS database are higher than I get using Jim Seltzer's programme which is no longer available, but I still have it on an older computer

[Maggie Smith]

Do the UK breed clubs have a stance on this subject? It would be interesting to have a seminar on COI.

[Margaret Sierakowski]

In the IRWSCGB, we have Ann Millington, who runs the Genetics sub committee, who has been saying for several years that breeders should look around for less related and more varied stud dogs. But as she also says  the IRWS is a very healthy breed, it kind of takes away the urgency of the message. If the breeders think what they are breeding are healthy dogs , even with high COIs , they tend to go on line breeding

A seminar only on COIs would be a slightly one sided, and possibly boring,  view of dog breeding , it would need to be conbined with raising awareness of inherited disease  and the longer term effects of inbreeding depression, also an introduction to population genetics

Its only when one puts all those factors together , that one gets more of  a sense of urgency

Its also about getting the message over  , that one shouldnt wait until a  breed is riddled with multiple hereditary diseases and inbreeding depression has set in, by then it really is five minutes before midnight. Much better to change breeding practices  to prevent problems .