Advice on Bloat, as given in the Irish Setter Breeders Club Newsletter, Winter 2009

[Susan Stone]

The Summer Newsletter 2009 and the Winter Newsletter 2009 of the ISBC (UK) both contain important information on health issues. Anyone interested may be able to order a copy via the secretary (see website).

The advice given on page 5 Vol 1 Issue 27 by the breed clubs' KC Health Liaison Representative Prof Ed Hall to vets and breeders is quoted as follows:

"1. A gastroplexy should always be performed when torsion is corrected.

2. Inflammatory bowel disease is not common in young dogs and to use steroids and other drugs with significant side-effects is inappropriate at such a time.

3. Bloat is probably inherited and whilst it may take a long time to determine the genetic problems, it makes sense not to repeat a breeding that has produced puppies with bloat.

Points 1 and 2 are things I will continue to try and educate my colleagues about, although owner pressure can have an effect too.

Point 3 is for breeders and breed societies to consider."

Further in the article (written by Lynne Dale):
quote:
Health Record:
The ISBC is keeping a record of helath problems in the breed. It is our intention over the next few years to see if we can get a good knowledge of the problems both past and present we have encountered. This information will eventually be handed to the KV Health Rep. in the hope it will be useful for future research.
unquote

Finally a request for information from people with dogs experiencing problems is given, saying that there are two sections for the storing of information: Open and Closed, the closed section being for those wanting confidentiality.

[eva ciechonska]

Hi Dee, I think you misread me, I said "apart from chicken and rabbit" I am of the same opinion as you. I discussed the 'Barf Diet' with my vet some time ago and she had seen far too many dogs with perforated stomachs to be prepared to recommend it.
It is a great shame that the research folded because of lack of subjects. Here's hoping it will be more successful next time.

[Dee Rance]

Sorry for the misunderstanding (I'm Dyslexic) But I agree entirely with your vet. As for the Research the person involved won't be doing it again, so the opportunity has gone, we seem to have a lot of people doing their research into this subject, and a lot of people will and have latched onto their findings, although they were not scientists just people that thought that they knew. Most came up with what looked like valid conclusions, but....were the findings cause or effect???
Bloat if hereditary, has a very complicated mode of inheritance unlike say PRA which is a simple recessive gene. Simple if you understand it. But this is something very complicated, and then there are the 'stress' affected bouts, that just could be 'one of those things' that may never be repeated. A one off thing, so we really do need someone that can and will do something about finding a genetic link and find the gene involved...Lets hope so...

[Astrid Landsaat]

About the Barf diet, I placed this article on a Barf forum: http://www.woodhavenlabs.com/barf-myth.html :-) In my opinion the only good point that Barfers have is that most common dogfoods contains a lot of stuff that dogs don't need. I mean grain and preservatives.

[Cheryl Gorey]

Thanks Mel for posting these articles. Being overseas (down under) I don't get to see a lot of the articles that are posted here by other members, so I appreciate this a great deal.

[Sue and Cash]

After reading that in regards to the Helicobacter pylori "bug" or organism referred to, I recall being tested for that myself since I have off and on again gastritis. I had a blood test if I recall to detect it. They also test with a stool sample or breath test. I wonder why they do not have this available for dogs. The article stated it is too evasive to do a stomach biopsy on a bloated dog. I am just curious that if this did play a role then why it can't be tested as we do in humans? Perhaps cost is the issue. But if it is true that they suspect it might be in all dogs stomachs and it might be a link then I would like to see a blood or stool test for it. I know you can treat it in humans and without treatment all other treatments are futile. Would that not be true in animals as well I wonder. Thank you for posting those articles.

[Dee Rance]

Problem with that one, cold water, is that when they are out on a walk, especially in this weather, they will drink from muddy puddles etc, I try to stop mine from doing this, but without much success..
As for the bacteria in the gut...I haven't read the article yet, this theory is great if it were proved, but you would have to test all dogs before they bloat, who is to say that the bacteria wasn't an effect of the bloat not the cause of it, by testing animals 'after' they bloat, that will only give you the evidence that the bacteria is 'now' in the stomach.....cause or effect.....(which came first the chicken or the egg)...I will now try to read the article and probably find out that this has already been said, well I would hope so...

[Dee Rance]

Interesting articles Mel. Unfortunately as it said in the article, it is difficult to pinpoint what preceded the bout of Bloat. All the things mentioned in the article are good and definitely needed mentioning, BUT, this isn't always the case, as a lot of us know to our costs, and to the pet owner that isn't connected with this kind of site, this is a problem, because a vet like Prof Hall has said these things, they will be thought of as gospel, and the causes of bloat that were mentioned are the only ones, I know that Prof Hall has only put the usual symptoms, but there are some that are also 'common' and these too need mentioning, so many animals bloat in the middle of the night, they haven't just been fed, and or exercised, they are fed on the floor. And are happy healthy and at the correct weight. So please read all of the things that people have written here, as you are doing, but pass it on to your friends that aren't on this sight, when an enlarged stomach is connected with vomiting a white frothy substance, and probably drinking a lot of water, at any time of the day or night, Please get your dog to the vet ASAP don't wait until tomorrow and see how they are then, they need urgent medical intervention, and NOW, don't be fobbed off and told bring them to the surgery in the morning or there is an appointment at 3.30pm it is needed immediately within two hours of FIRST symptoms, or your dog will die a dreadful death.
And when it comes down to it, vets only treat the symptoms they don't seen to treat the cause of the problem, what caused that particular bout of Bloat that is being presented to them???? But saving the life of our precious dogs must be good, and a good vet is worth his/her weight in gold. A good relationship with your vet must be had.

[eva ciechonska]

Dee, With regard to the Helicobacter Pylori, check out the 2002 ISAE Year Book, there is an excellent paper written by Dorne Carr BSc PGCE titled "Is Helicobacter The Major Cause of Gastric Dilation Volvulus in Dogs?", I have mentioned this before and enclose it now as downloaded with thanks from Rosie Dudley.

[Susan Stone]

What do the letters stand for behind Dorne Carr's name? Is she a vet?
I have no a medical or scientific education, but I do remember that a few years ago helicobacter pilory was being made responsible for all sorts of things... stomach ulcers in humans for example. Until the researchers realized that helicobacter is actually present in healthy guts of most humans - and dogs for that matter.
So isn't it more likely that dogs with a predisposition to GDV or bloat will often react more strongly to diet change, bacteria, also giardia... due to the fact that they ARE oversensitive. Not the other way round, not GDV or bloat BECAUSE of bacteria. As Dee put it: what comes first, the chicken or the egg?

[Catherine Carter]

No Dorne Carr is not a vet....I think she has a degree in sciences (biology if I am correct?) she is on this list....perhaps we could ask her to comment?

[Dee Rance]

I agree with you whole heartedly Susan, I know what the BSc is ( Bachelor of Science. But I think that a lot more is needed for this kind of research, haven't got the foggiest what the other is, could it be Post Graduate something???.)
Cause and effect, and yes we all have bacterial enzymes in our gut and stomach, good and bad, one thing that you mentioned is stomach ulcers could some of these dogs have them??? you know we are all grasping at straws, and scientist need to get into this, sorry to say that most vets aren't scientist so don't have this ''scientific background'' I personally think that they are much more analytical than vets. Vets go into veterinary work to help animals, and are far to involved with our pets to be analytical enough to be disconnected with the task at hand, we get back to the saying ''horses for causes'' And vets and scientists are two different 'animals' (excuse the pun) that is why one needs the other. And we need both.

[Cheryl Gorey]

The young 15mth old boy who bloated (did not torsion) here in Australia was found to have ulcers at the opening of his oesophagus when they couldn't get the tube down to clear the gas! So, I wonder about the whole connection with everything to do with the stomach! He has beenon probiotics since and has improved tremendously. He doesn't vomit up his food much at atll now!

My mother had the helicobacter pylori problem and had to go on a very strong long course of antibiotics. The condition made her feel quite miserable and nauseous, but I guess dogs just accept and adapt and we don't ever know how much pain and suffering they are actually in.

Yes, we definitely need a scientist!!