Why do people breed animal species (like the dog - canis lupus familiaris) without the basic knowledge?

[Petra Kasznár]

THE DOG:
"Modern dog breeds show more variation in size, appearance, and behavior than any other domestic animal. Within the range of extremes, dogs generally share attributes with their wild ancestors, the wolves. Dogs are predators and scavengers, possessing sharp teeth and strong jaws for attacking, holding, and tearing their food. Although selective breeding has changed the appearance of many breeds, all dogs retain basic traits from their distant ancestors. Like many other predatory mammals, the dog has powerful muscles, fused wristbones, a cardiovascular system that supports both sprinting and endurance, and teeth for catching and tearing."

If the above text is really the description of the "dog" than in some Irish Setter Breeder's opinion the Irish Setter doesn't belong to this race. So please let me know to which animal race the Irish Setter belongs to or is it still an animal? Or a sweet plush toy?

[Kristina Brannlund Westin]

In these days we use our setters to track birds for us to shot down, The dog are supposed to go and pick it up for us. It will carrie the bird loose in her mouth and deliver it to his owner wiyhout tewing on it.
We have had cheeps and cows for many years, but never ever my setters even tried to attach some of those animals. Instead they were nursing the small lambs, very soft and gentle, so this totally unbelievebly to me.

[Carmel Murphy]

Dogs have been domesticated for a long time and have no need any more to hunt and kill their own food(as do wolves, dingos,african wild dogs,etc.!!) Man(Humans) have been providing food for domesticated canines for centuries. If you want TO GO BACK TO YOUR CAVE LIKE EXISTANCE, GET YOURSELF A WOLF INSTEAD OF A SETTER!!!!!

[Petra Kasznár]

First of all thanks for joining the discussion and commenting on my video. For your satisfaction it has been removed from this site. But first, nobody forced you to watch it, it was for hunting lovers! In my opinion "disgusting" is animal porno, not this video that only showed NATURE itself. As you could read - if you did - the "poor roe deer" was suffering from a previous injury who knows from how long and after it was shot and caught by the dogs it suffered only for a few seconds, less than a dog you put to asleep and surely much less than those animals in the slaughterhouse you buy in the supermarket! My dog - the murderer and the agressive beast, as you called it - NEVER killed a HEALTHY animal, he used to live together with ducks, rabbits, goats and also with one female roe deer puppy without even touching them!!!!!!!! Making difference between household animals and wild game to take home for dinner is canine intelligence!!!!!!

If you stand against hunting why don't you keep and breed another dog race, like the chihuahua? In that case you would surely never had to face this "horror"!
In our country there aren't any wolves, so big game has no natural "enemy". If their number wouldn't be limited by the hunters and their dogs to assist diseases would spread among them (balance of nature) they would starve because of the lack of food and you would see a lot of skinny and ill animals!
And for Carmel Murphy: is it more acceptable for you to feed your dog with the commercial dog food which contains animal waste product coming from the slaughterhouse where animals suffer more than anywhere else than to see a roe deer saved from its long suffering? Or do you feed your dogs with vegetables? Or what you don't see it doesn't hurt?
Finally I sadly take cognizance of the fact that you still don't understand that dogs, like the Irish Setter, are predators just like wolves! Like it or not also YOUR sweet ones!
Better to be a caveman and know the reality than someone who puts her head in the sand like ostrich and eats her dinner thinking that the chicken or cow she's eating had a happy life and analgetic death!

[Carmel Murphy]

Thank you for your comments! But you have gone completely off the point which I made! I Know where my food comes from ( regarding slaughter houses etc where humane methods only are used to kill my dinner!) My point was you should have put the animal out of its misery quickly by shooting and not letting your dogs do the job for you! I have no objection to hunting if it is done humanely! And again setters were not bred to kill, as their ancesters the wolf!! Finding game is their job!

[Petra Kasznár]

Just to be clear. The hardly limping animal was shot after found by the setter, but as it was hit at its bottom it didn't die immediately. We let the dogs go there because they are faster than we. In one or two seconds it was dead! When we arrived there it was no more suffering from anything! It was the quickest way in that case and if you read my comment on the video you would know it! You surely don't believe but we LOVE animals and I wouldn't let one suffer!!!!!! If it has to die, be it the quickest possible!

[Dee Rance]

I am not one to put my head in the sand, I have never been an Ostrich. I have owned a farm. Animals on that farm (sheep and cattle and Chickens) were destined for death. To go on someone's plate. BUT these animals had a happy, all be it short, life. They were well looked after, had everything that was needed for a good life, shelter, food and any medical attention that was necessary. When it came to their end, it was done as humanely as I could have it done. I NEVER took pleasure in their deaths, and I resent the fact that you are likening the dinner on everyone's plate to what went on on that video.
I would also like to add that I have actually used a gun, didn't like doing it but, it was something that had to be done, so can look at this from both sides, I see that you say that the deer was already dead, that was NOT evident on the video. If you were not there it is difficult to see if the animal is dead or not, there was a lot of movement because the dogs were ripping into the deer's gut, and strangling at the head.

[ursula wilby]

I never saw the film that this discussion is refering to, but assume from reading the replies that this is a hurt roe being tracked down by dogs (irish setters I presume) and killed.
Am I right?

Well even if an irish setter is not (in my eyes) the best suited dog for a task like this, I must say that we in Sweden have a great demand for dogs following blood-scent and tracking down animals that have been hit by cars etc and also been shot but not killed outright.
I trained one of my dogs in this, but never ended up testing this in a "live" situation.
But I do think that even gentle irish setters deep down are DOGS.
And yes, in the correct circumstances they will kill, it is every dogs instinct.

[Petra Kasznár]

thank you ursula, you are first one who understands me. unfortunatley on the video it was not seen the finding, only that the irish setter was strangling the roedeer, but to try to avoid misunderstandings I wrote under the video the whole story!!!!!

[Carmel Murphy]

I agree that all dogs will kill and that is their nature! But the only point I was making was that the deer should have been shot(as the hunter was close enough to do so) and setters were not intended to be used like this(certain other breeds like terriers, hounds etc were!)

[Dee Rance]

Setters will kill given the 'wrong' circumstances, unfortunately, but that is by accident, not deliberately, my two girls found a 'mixey' rabbit in my back garden and before I could get to it they had, unfortunately killed the poor thing, that was a combination of 'mistake' and unfortunately 'play' but, the normal thing for a setter is a soft mouth, it is not supposed to damage the animal it is retrieving. I have to say that the rabbit wasn't damaged at all, perhaps it was shock that killed it, it was very sick...and I was horrified
As for this video there was plenty of opportunity for the 'cameraman' to 'dispatch' the deer before the dogs had got to the point of ripping it to bits, alive....
Yes dogs are descended from Wolves but that was many years ago...we have selectively bread the dogs we know today for different 'jobs' and they have mostly lost the Wolf instinct. There is still a little of the wolf left, but if they were still completely Wolves, in different clothing, then we wouldn't be able to totally control or trust them. And I trust my setters, I never totally trusted my Akitas, that is a breed that I would expect to do this kind of thing, I would NEVER let them out of my control, It was also the pleasure that was derived by the cameraman or the person with the gun, if they were two different people then they were both, in my mind, sick...because they seemed to ENJOY what was going on

[ursula wilby]

It may end up looking as if my dogs are "killers", but most of them have killed and it has certainly NOT been by accident!

I had one that just loved chasing and killing chickens if she had a chance. And I think during her lifetime she managed to dispatch about four or five of them and then very deliberatly rushed off to pluck them. Yes, I flipped my lid, but then, had I been a dog I would go for those flapping brainless creatures too!
And no regrets!
(I now have a chickenrun with a good and stable fence).

Another one found out that killing hedgehogs was an easy task if you just managed to roll them over. And yet another one once rushed into a ditch, grabbed a babyhare, killed it with one shake , rushed to my left side, sat down and proudly presented me with her find.

All of these setters could/can be trusted with small kittens, etc. They were all very gentle in every way but they were all dogs with their basic dog-behaviour still intact.
And that includes finding, going after and killing prey.

Reading the comments, It sounds as if this dog-behaviour in a setter surprises people. But if your dogs have no frequent access to chickens, baby-hares, catchable rabbits and other "easy-to-get-animals" you may well live the rest of your lives never finding out that your setter is in fact a DOG.

[Carmel Murphy]

I certainly know all my dogs are capable of killing animals(and most have done so at some time or other!) I dont have a gun to do the job myself and I dont actively encourage my dogs to kill! But this deer in the video could have been shot instead of being finished off by the dogs! That was my main point but somehow has been taken all out of context and blown all out of proportion! And I also believe that the setter is not the most appropriate breed for this job! I know plenty of breeds more suited to the task! And this footage should not have been posted here!