Why do Australian breeders sell litters not for show or breeding LIMITED REGISTER

[ricky young]

Why ? Beautifully bred litters not available for show or breeding. No wonder our exhibtors numbers have dropped dramatically. I judge a breeder by what other people do in the ring. They should be encouraging and helping these people not shunning them away.

Cheers Ricky Young

[ricky young]

Hi Michelle
I can see where you are coming from but there was a litter advertised not for show or breeding before they were born,the other only days old. My wife and I both come from doggy(her greyhounds me irish and greyhounds) families and we put a lot of time and work into our dogs and just trying to get a quality dog of the type we want is almost impossible.We are patient and hopefully it may happen.Some of the Irish that have come N Qld have been second class, there has been 1 or 2 exceptions. We also have poodles a toy and a standard. My wife spent three years in a Poodle Parlour in Mackay.
We will never breed with our dogs unless the breeder wishes to use them,and they have the pups dog or bitch. She wouldn't be able to let them go.
Cheers Rick

[eva ciechonska]

Very often Ricky, however they dress it up whether it is because "they don't want the new owners/ehibitors ruining the breed"........blah blah blah, the simple reason is they just don't want someone else stealing their money market. It is a shame because everyone has to start somewhere......we all did.....years ago someone put their trust in us and now it is time for us to put our trust in someone else, the new generation of dog breeders and exhibitors. if you endorse a pedigree in any way you are telling the new owner that, even though they can have one of your precious puppies and part with good money for it, they cannot be relied upon not to breed from it. Well if you have any doubt in your mind then YOU JUST DON'T SELL.. To treat puppy buyers in any way other than with complete honesty and courtesy is condescending in the extreme. I agree with you Ricky.....breeders should be encouraging and helping, not shunning away.
By the way.....what is a Newbie? It sounds like someone with a nasty rash to me. Maybe New Puppy Owner or Exhibitor might sound a little less patronising.............
Incidentally Michelle....if all your pet schnauzer pups must be spayed then who foots the bill for this? Do you take the cost of spaying off the price of your pet pups or do you pay for the operation for each pup?

[eva ciechonska]

Blimey Michelle.........you are not talking to some Novice Exhibitor here (I refuse to use the term "Newbie".....it is exactly what you say it is.....common). If you look on Ricky Young's webpage you will see that he has had 4 IS since 1974, three of which are champions. He is currently showing Ch Brodruggans Masterpiece!!!!!! I think you advising him to be patient and maybe to attend some Irish Specialities IS patronising.....or what would you call it? He has been showing IS longer than you have.
I am with Lynn on this one and only breed if I want to keep a puppy myself (16 litters in 37 years). In consequence I don't have much trouble vetting owners or keeping tabs on the puppies I have bred, or, like Lynn, providing an aftercare service. I don't endorse, never have dogs in partnerships or out on breeding terms and never advise to spay because it ruins an IS coat. Lynn is absolutely right when she says that no one sells only "show" puppies, there are always pet puppies in a litter so how any breeder can tell what they are going to get before the pups are even born is beyond me.
I stand by my original statement. Maybe someone who only breeds to keep doesn't make any money but if you are breeding multiple litters every year than you are most definitely making money. If you are endorsing registrations at the same time then you are safeguarding your market and ensuring that new owners only come to you.....this is NOT how you should be treating your prospective puppy buyers.

[Pat Aldridge]

Michelle, at what age do you sell your Schnauzer puppies?

[eva ciechonska]

Following on from Pat's question.........how many litters a year do you have?

[eva ciechonska]

Michelle.....once again you are very far away from Ricky's original quastion. This is not all about you or your ethic as a breeder or about Min Schnauzers or about designer crosses. It is your self-related responses which have taken us off topic. What seems to be the norm in Min Schnauzers is very far removed from Irish Setters and it is that which is under discussion. Though, I must admit, to spay 8/10 week old puppies before they are fully developed is going against every dog breeding ethic I have ever been taught. Would it not be better to advise new owners about breeding to the right sire.......that way they would not be "ruining the breed", though who arbitrates could be just as questionable.
I have been on the Dogzone website and logged onto profiles of well known IS males very few of which are offered at stud. Why is that? Is it because they are for the sole use of the breeder/owner? This could be just as relevant as beautifully bred litters not being available for show or breeding. Where do these puppies go? If they just go to pet homes with endorsed pedigrees then why.......if there are many potential, dedicated people who would like to break in to showing? What a waste. If the show scene is so under represented by Irish Setters then surely breeders would want to jump at the chance of getting more of their stock into the ring. My gut feeling (and I could be doing Australian breeders a disservice here so apoligies in advance) is that they want to keep this exclusive. But who will carry on when they are gone if they are barring access to new exhibitors. Please comment.

[ricky young]

I reckon that they (Aussie Breeders) might have to look outside their own little world and start encouraging new caretakers of the breed otherwise their bloodlines will die with them and thats what they deserve.
cheers Rick

[Cheryl Gorey]

Hey Ricky, perhaps some of these breeders with their attitudes of not wanting to sell dogs without restrictions, do deserve to have their lines die with them. Perhaps Australian bred Irish Setters may be better off without the influence of some kennels too!

I haven't bred a litter for 18 years, but my first consideration in vetting potential homes was to ensure that the pup has the best home possible for it's life time. Showing and obedience activites, a bonus!! When I do breed a litter again, I would be ecstatic to have an enquiry from someone who loves and cares for their dogs, like you and Virginia do. I would know that the dog would be loved and cared for their lifetime. As I said, the fact that you show your dogs is a bonus!!

I haven't ever bought a pup that had restrictions, but I was prepared to when I put in an order for a girl puppy years ago, to get the line that I wanted, but this never came to fruition.

I hope you get what you want. Believe me it is worth waiting for the right puppy. I did... waited 5 years and I am so happy with my little girl, Bridget. So glad I waited!!

[ricky young]

I know that when some of the US imports came in the 80s that you could only register 4 pups no matter if you only had 2 or 12.Probably to encourage breeders to run pups longer and get the better pups in the ring, We also had bigger numbers I believe that they think they are protecting their bloodlines but I think they are actually saying that other exhibitors you aren't going to beat me with my bloodlines when they should be just as pleased if they do. I believe I have found a breeder who is willing to sell us a quality dog(pup) later this year,fingers crossed we will have lots of success. Its good to see when you look up a breeders web page and see dogs not owned or kenneled by the breeder but by another exhibitor. We believe its time for another Irish as Youngin will be 7 just after Christmas.
Cheers Rick

[Marina Scott]

Shoot me if you want but my opinion is that It reflects an arrogance that just beggars belief! Success in the show ring is satisfying and exciting whether it's with the puppy that I've kept or with the one owned by the person who has thought enough of my dogs to want one for themselves.

[ricky young]

Hi
EXACTLY !
See reply to Melinda Auld
Cheers Rick

[ricky young]

By the way Marina you have great dogs and although I have not contacted you for a pup you are on my shortlist as you have the type of dog I like. Did you ever do the country show circuit in western nsw in1978/9 Peak Hill Parkes Forbes ect ?Cheers Rick