American Red Setter War raging

[Henk ten Klooster]

The American Red Setter War is once again raging.

The biggest conflict within setter-circles ever was bubbling under for some time. In 1975 the American Kennel Club (AKC) discontinued registration of Field Dog Stud Book (FDSB) registered Irish setters. This happened on request of the Irish Setter Club of America (ISCA).

Policies of the ISCA changed recently. According to Deb Fazenbaker, editor of the Flushing Whip, clubmagazine of the NRSFTC, it began in August. The secretary of the club received an e-mail "saying the ISCA Board of Directors had voted to permit a policy change allowing the AKC to provide reciprocal registration for Irish Red Setters with NAVHDA or FDSB registration."

Deb Fazenbaker follows. "The main part of the requirement was a 3 generation DNA verified pedigree. The e-mail also contained a copy of a letter from Delegate Connie Vanacore, to the AKC notifying them of the club’s new policy."

"This was big news and word traveled quickly in both the ISCA and the NRSFTC communities.The ISCA membership didn’t see this coming and some members responded dramatically, demanding that the current policy remain in effect. As result, the AKC put an immediate hold on lifting the ban and began an extensive review of the issue"

For those of you here who want to be informed, read the Flushing Whip article of Deb Fazenbaker by clicking http//www.nrsftc.com/PDF/Whip.pdf

For actual analysis of the situation by Allen Fazenbaker, board member of the NRSFTC click http://redsetters.blogspot.com

For views of those within the Irish setter Club of America opposing a lift of the ban for reciprocity see http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/iscaelection2007

[Mary S.]

This appears to be a tempest in a teapot - at least, those references did not help.

Again, I own two RED SETTERS. They are both just 24 inches tall, which makes them the minimum for AKC, but that's irrelevent because I do not intend to breed them. However, they have siblings who are bred and trained to hunt. They are both certified by AKC as pedigreed Irish setters. That they come from several generations of smaller "red setters" bred to hunt did not seem to bother AKC one bit. Several were champions.

I fail to see why we have to get into a squabble over "which is the right kind of setter." It is silly. The one show dog I owned was a good hunter. She had terrible problems with her fur, which had to be shaved on the top (something I have never considered doing with another dog). I happen to prefer the smaller dogs, but as long as the smaller Red setters are included as Irish setters in the AKC, then let us all live together peacefully. Please.

[Henk ten Klooster]

"Tempest in a teapot" alliterates good Mary.

Fact is that passions run/ran high about what was called a "doggy kind of Berlin Wall". Documented by a few thousand e-mails on a discussion list of mostly members of the Irish Setter Club of America (ISCA), opposing recriprocal registry for Irish setters.

Right, quite a few red setters are registered by the American Kennel Club. And quite a few -direct family- NOT. Dividing line was: where was your Irish setter registered in 1975: only Field Dog Stud Book (FDSB) and/or AKC.

Ofcourse best is to "let us all live together peacefully" as you state. So ISCA's board action to make a brick in the wall and -like all other breeds- accept reciprocal registry, seemed a contribution for that.

Fact is, the board changed its decision and laid the decision in the hands of members. They will vote, resulting in either maintaining or breaking down this wall in setterworld. Your opinion?

[Mary S.]

All for breaking down the wall, Henk. But I read the French decision as erecting a new wall.

As for my dogs, they were bred by professionals in Pennsylvania who are trying to resurrect the original Irish setter imported from Ireland (before Mary Pickford popularized them in the 1920s and then Disney made a popular movie about them, and they were overbred, and bred to be rather enormous with frizzy hair - I had one of those, by the way, and she was still an Irish setter - still a loveable looneytune, still loved to hunt and had a very very good nose. And she talked, as only Irish setters can.)

Now, my dogs were not alive in 1975. I guess you mean their ancestors. In this case we are talking about a lot of dogs, bred as Red Setters, who were registered with BOTH the FDSB and AKC as Irish setters. Both.

Again, I read the French version of the war as a backlash - exile the big dogs.

Neither should be exiled. They are both Irish setters - having owned both kinds, believe me, THEY ARE BOTH IRISH SETTERS.

If you are all for breaking down walls, good. Sorry I misread the message from France.

End of discussion, from me at least.

[Henk ten Klooster]

Well Mary, success on breaking down walls in your US of A.

Interesting you bring up discussions on French scenes here and see it as a "French version of the war". But the French never threw out whole groups of Irish setters, banning them from any competition under the French kennelclub. The ISCA did.

Some ISCA members even want now (2007) that people with Irish setters descending from the Ned LeGrande restoration period (fifities) be stripped from records NOW. Like yours...

[Mary S.]

Okay. I read Deb Fazenbaker's article. It is her thesis that the ban (which took place in the 1970s) has been good for Red Setters, helping them develop independently of their larger, frizzy-haired blow-dried brethren. So it's not a good argument for changing the status quo.

Stay off of Yahoo if you want to read sane postings. That place is nuts. For that matter, anybody who would mix afghans in with Irish setters to get a fluffier dog (and they did) is nuts. Blow drying dogs is nuts.

Stick to field trials. Forget the circus.

My personal preference is agility trials, as we are not hunters. And the agility trials include EVERYBODY. Red setters are great at agility trials.