ruptured aorta

[elaine barry]

I am trying to find out how many other irish setters have died with a ruptured aorta. My lovely boy Rogan (Jonola Stardom at Lindalloch JW) was taken from me suddenly in 2007 aged just 21 months. Has anyone else had an irish die of this awful condition?

[Susan Stone]

Thank you Debbie and Elaine for talking about this openly. We all know this is not easy, but as has been said before we all have the wellbeing of our beloved dogs in mind.

If I remember rightly there are some lines in the Swiss 'Appenzeller Sennenhund' with a similar problem. As this is a rare breed with a small genetic pool the breeders are very concerned. I could try to find our more if you are interested.

[Dee Rance]

This is how all these problems should be dealt with, we should all be talking, it is I think the first time these things have been discussed openly, and I agree with you Debbie NO RECRIMINATIONS I was really sorry to hear about what happened to the dogs, at the time that it happened, but it all kind of went away. Nothing more said about it. I know how difficult it must have been for you both.
Could this be a recessive gene?? ie it needs both the parents to have the gene and when a certain two animals get together then you have got ''affected'' progeny....if it is a dominant gene then it only takes one of them to be a carrier of it. much more scary. Or is it just one of those things.
Someone said recently that you don't actually know how these dogs get under your skin until you have lost one....So true, and boy do they get under your skin....And I think that you can learn a lot from the research that another breed has done, even anecdotal research. It all helps.

[Highfeather]

More tragic because with dominant conditions the dog is most definitely afected, however, if it is a dominant trait the problem shows up and those that do not develop ruptured aortas would presumably be genetically clear of the dominant gene, that is if it was known to be dominant which of course is not known.

Is it possible that ruptured aortas are related to undiagnosed PDA (patent ductus arteriosus)? PDA does crop up in Irish Setters occassionally here in North America.

My heart goes out to all of you who have lost dogs this way. I can only imagine how terrible it must have been standing by helplessly watching your dog suffer. My condolences to you all.

Wendy

[Susan Stone]

Wendy, I received similar information when enquiring about the Appenzell Sennenhund. It seems they have not experienced the ruptured aorta but what sound more like PDA. I am attaching the file I received. The Irish Setter is mentioned as being predisposed.

Elaine, Debbie, another very different thought has one through my mind previously: It there possibly a link between Bloat (GDV), Megaoesophagus (MO) and Ruptured Aorta? In humans there is an illness called Ehlers-Danlos-Sydnrome, a connective tissue disorder affecting skin, tendons, ligaments. It has to do with a collagen disorder. This question would have to be put to veterinary experts.

[Susan Stone]

here is the file I forgot;o)

[Dee Rance]

Hi Mel
I hope that you don't think that I was putting any blame anywhere, there is no blame to be placed. That is not what I was saying. I personally haven't got the foggiest where this has come form, I just know how devastating these things can be. Not this particular problem, but I think everyone knows that I lost all my lines in the '80's with bloat. We were told that it was a management problem, and that we were feeding and exercising at the wrong time. (I know that this is wrong now, but it devastated us at the time, so much so that I couldn't get another Irish for a long time). That we could still breed form the dogs and their progeny, I was trying to open a conversation, to find out if there was anyone out there that may know something. That is the beauty of this site it is so wide spread, that there may be a minute chance that there could be someone else out there that has some kind of knowledge of this, and all of you together may be able to come up with something, I think that was the reason this discussion was started. I am sure that all connected with this appreciate that you were behind them 200% Please I hope that you haven't taken any offence by this....I think perhaps I didn't aught not to say any more if I am only going to offend....no offence meant, I seem to be saying this a lot nowadays. SORRY. but I just thought that the questions might help....

[Dee Rance]

I thank you for that Mel.
It is wonderful that you have been so supportive about this problem, I think that is so needed, we as a breed should all pull together to try and find out just how these thing work.

[elaine barry]

Thank you to everyone for their replies. I know this has been painful for you Debbie, as it has opened old wounds again, but it is something that needs researching and looking into. Like you say, the breeder has been exceptional in all this and very supportive, as have you, and I think that all our vets telling us that the condition isn't hereditary, didn't help, but it does make you wonder.
I would appreciate any information you can give us Susan on the same problem the 'Appenzeller Sennenhund' breeders are having. It appears so far that mainly males are affected, so it would be interesting to see if this is the case with them.

[elaine barry]

Thanks Sammi, it does appear to be more apparent in males, although I have heard of bitches dropping dead and it has been put down to them having had a heart attack. Without a post mortem being carried out, it is difficult to know for sure,
Any information would be appreciated

[Kirsty williamson]

This must be very painful for you and Debbie I lost my broodmare seven weeks from foaling with the same, i was devastated at this double tragedy, with her it was the pressure from the foal which had caused the rupture i know of several people that have lost mares this way,is it possible that a build up of pressure is also causing this in the dogs? I trim an Irish with a heart condition which is manageable on medication, the specialist told the owners that there is a higher incidence of Irish with heart problems. Mine get their hearts checked every year when they have their boosters I know a lot of people who don;t believe in boosters maybe it would be a good idea in that case to just take their dogs in for a yearly MOT.

[Kristina Brannlund Westin]

My girl Clara who we think died in some kind of ruptured Aorta, also had this Aorta stenosis, so that is why I just wondered if there could be a connection, but as you say Debbie probably not...

[Tineke de Jonge]

I know how terrible it is to loose a red friend on a rupert aorta. I lost a bitch, almost 14 months old. She was a perfect little healty bitch. On thursday she hurt herself on her left arm, at least whe thought. Friday, saturday and sunday it went every day a little bit better. I came back from a little trip on sundayevening and she was very happy to see me. Monday morning everything was oke, she was eating, went out for a walk. Just like always. Later this day she lied under the table and after a few strange noises she died. I was really upsad and i called the breeder and the vetclinic. Later that day the breeder came to me and whe brougt my little girl together to the vet to see here. The next day whe could bring here home. The vet had found a ruptured aorta. He also told me it was a case on his own and for as far a his knows it wasent a problem in the line. This litter is now 3 years old and no other puppy from this litter has had the same thing.