Neutered Irish setters aggressive to non-desexed dogs??

[Ilona & Gina]

This morning we went to our usual doggy park so that Anton and Gina could meet all their friends, which is usally good fun. Imagine ten two 15 dogs gathering on a big ground, having a pre-breakfast party.

 

However, this morning, there was a new kid on the block, a German shepherd, not desexed. This poor thing would so like to play with the other dogs, but they kind of ostracized him. The atmosphere between the dogs was electrified - really palbable, almost explosive.

We left; it was too intense. I've never ever experienced anything like it in my entire life with dogs!

 

Our 20 month-old Anton - the friendliest and most playful dog growled at him (so did the others, all desexed). The German Shepherd backed off. I've never seen Anton being mad at another dog -espcecially a German shepherd - He is very careful whom to trust, but then either he stays away, or he approaches other dogs slowly. Once he made friends, he loves them.

 

I am confused. Isn't it the other way round - that intact dogs are aggressive towards neutered dogs? And aren't Irish setters said to be so friendly, at least in theory? Maybe it was Tuffy's (so the shepherd's name) body language?

 

It turns all my dog theory books upside down. .

Does anybody have an explanation for this? I want to avoid similar situations for the future.

[amandapyman]

hi,

i have an intact male setter, who has the same problem, he is a target for some neutered male dogs, i guess that i was of the same opinion as you, that it would be the other way round. Some neutered dogs, seem to be so agressive and challenging that i do worry about alfie my setter. i havent wanted to have him neutered, but maybe it would be for the best. he is nearly 2 years old, and i do feel that if i dont do something about it, alfie's temperament may be changed, can this happen. any advice?

amanda and alfie setter

[Sue and Cash]

This is exactly why I am neutering Cash within the next couple months. Before he is seen as not a puppy anymore to other dogs. The dynamics change everytime an unaltered male comes into our dog park. It's crazy. Neutered dogs either go crazy wanting to either hump or fight the dog intact or if we have other intact males, posturing starts and a strange vibe comes over the group. It's not worth the tension and worry for me. I have to let him run there daily and I want him to be just another guy in the crowd and not draw the attention of some, in my opinion, breeds that shouldn't necessarily be in the park intact. We run the gamit of so many breeds and I am speaking from friends who own pit bulls....they don't really belong in dog parks with large groups of dogs after they are a couple years old. Too unpredictable and if a fight should happen, the pit always get the blame! I am displease lately to see several coming almost daily with unaltered male pits and they are contantly humping others. One jumped on poor Cash and I had to fight him off his hips. A huge dog with way to much weight to be humping on a young setters hips. Anyway I best get off that subject because it just gets my goat up too much. Your topic is exactly why I am neutering my dog. And I agree Sue that we have the same people we hang out with everyday, basically we are the sporting breed people, and they do get very pack like and are not always keen to allow another new dog in right away. But they are not mean, and do not bother them, they just don't hang out with them for a while till they get to know them better. Cash had to earn his stripes when he arrived as a young pup. He got push around and pinned a couple times by older dogs. Now he is one of the gang and tolerated as the puppy of the group but is being taught everyday the pecking order of life and he is learning very well. When they have had enough of his playfulness, a low growl and he gets back in proper behavior and trots along with them. I actually love to watch dogs interact.

[Sue and Cash]

Sue ours are in the forest preserves and very large wooded trails and play areas both. You can stay and play or head out into the woods and not run into dogs often. I don't think I would like the city type that are just fenced in mulched squares. Too close together, I agree.

[Ilona & Gina]

To be honest, I personally don't believe in neutering. I would love to leave dogs as mother nature meant them to be. However, I felt that we had no choice, with male and female littermates under one roof. A friend of mine had her male Irish setter spayed because other dogs didn't like him. I don't have the impression his character changed. But then, you read so many conflicting "expert" theories, and all of them have valid arguments.

[amandapyman]

i have to say, i dont want to get alfie neutered, i dont have any behaviour or humping problems because he is intact, and as you say i would prefer to leave him as mother nature intended. at the minute i keep alfie safe by walking away from places that i know will be busy with dogs and owners that do not control their dogs, he does interact with other dogs, but ones that i know. i am hoping that as he matures, he will be less of a threat???

[Sue and Cash]

Sue mine is totally fenced in and double security gates. We pay a yearly fee and must be wearing our tag. We have rules about cleaning up with pick up stations all over and must have proof of rabies. Your liable for your dog should he misbehave. I too would worry about the dog running off should he catch the scent of a rabbit or other critter. I feel mine is always near me and walks along the trails with me or at least is running in the field along side me. But 100% trusted recall for any dog while young? I am not so sure that is possible. At least not for any dog I have had. When older I have had a couple that wouldn't move from my side. I have real concerns in light of newer studies that show intact dogs of both sexes are healthier, but I feel like I have to do it. He might be healthier intact but his quality of life in suburbia would be less that I want. He needs to run and explore and be a dog. And neutering him give him the chance to do that for hours a day safely. Again that is my life, not yours! If I lived in a rural area it would be different.

[Ilona & Gina]

Re neutered dogs, it just crossed my mind that a golden retriever I know, who is neutered, constantly humps other dogs - and me! And with him, I don't think it's dominance, agression, let alone excess testosterone.

With the wisdom of hindsight and my non-expert experience, I don't really think that neutering has anything to do with behaviour.

[Sue and Cash]

I agree with you- I had a Brittany for 10 years that humped anything that moved. He was fixed at 6 months of age. It does change a group of dogs together. I have witnessed it daily for years. They give off a scent that is different and it is immediately known by the others. Dublin was crazy in love with intact males. He would climb under them and roll on his back in submission but get crazy nuts. Others will challenge them and growl even fight. And some just ignore it altogether. Cash already has an intact Lab that he licks his face whenever the dog comes in the park. That is a submissive act also. He doesn't do that to the neutered males though.