Palmerston line?

[Michaela]

5 puppies of the litter between my Irish Setter male dog Lohmann’s Milan and the bitch Lohmann’s Krambambuli at the Kennel Wenzl’s Master of desaster have more or less a white line on their heads. Somewhere I’ve read something of the “Palmerston-line”. The white line on their heads could be a criteria of their ancestry going back on of the founding dogs of that Irish Setter race Ch.Palmerston, KCSB 5138. I’ve read in the book “Pointer und Setter” of Waldemar Marr, that Palmerston was a single-colored Irish Setter with a white blaze on his head and that he was a strong inheritor. A sign of a closer relationship to that ancestor Palmerston could be the “Palmerston-line” – a white line on the heads.
So I have read only that Palmerston was a “big Champion with many titles” – so my question is: what titles? Working titles or Showtitels? And the other question is: could anyone show my more pictures of Palmerston on which you can see the white blaze?

[Gennadi]

According to L.Sabaneev (1896) Palmerston had narrow strip on head, not muzzle or nose, but Garryowen had small star on head and narrow strip on neck, that's why some judges prefered his brother Count.

[Henk ten Klooster]

White on Palmerston and Garryowen mentioned in all publications differs even here as you no doubt noticed.

Coloner Millner lived in Palmerston times so is quite a close source, Irish and visiting the US of A regularly. Plus in all writings very reliable. Thats why I chose him to quote.

The most recent book of Raymond O'Dwyer quotes Millner a lot, but still provides two options: nose and nose and forehead up to the crown of the head.

Yes his brother Ch Count (out of Ch Belle) was sometimes preferred. The history of (fading) white tells quite a few lessons on historiography.

[Londa Warren]

Sorry, Palmerston is no longer at the Astoria. Too bad, because I would really like to see what we call the "Palmerston Strip" (not stripe, but strip). Evidently he was donated to the Irish Setter Club of America many, many years ago and his location has disappeared from public knowledge. Perhaps he had become degraded, or is sitting in someone's attic. I've been searching for him for many years. If I ever find him, you guys across the sea will hear the shouting from here!

Londa

[Henk ten Klooster]

One of breeds mysteries I tried to get some light on, was disappearance Ch Palmerstons head, once mounted & displayed in Waldorf Astoria Hotel in New York.

Clippings of British dogpress from the fifties brought one answer.

In 2001 I finally met the source of the writer of one of those clippings in the Kentucky Wildlife Reservate, old and grey Herm David himself a writer. He confirmed what was written in the fifties, the famous head became a source of anger for the woman who did the cleaning, attracting so much dust.

She threw it away wit rest of "garbage"....

But maybe someone picked it up????

[Jelena Kreitmayer]

yup, I read somewhere that the person who was taking care of it threw it away as it became infested with moths. He was a hit at dog shows because of his lean and elegant skull that was much different than the dogs of that time.

[Melinda Auld]

Slightly off-topic, but I was wondering if anyone else here had puppies born with white "milk chins"? Fionn's litter all had cute little milk chins when they were born, but they all turned red by around 6-8 weeks of age. They looked very cute with their white chins.

[Kristina]

Soory, but what do you mean by milk chin??

[ursula wilby]

Milkchin...

[Kristina]

Ooo, now I see. Cute. ;))

[Carmel Murphy]

I think everyone knows I love white on setters!! Most of Rua's pups have had some white(mostly the "milk chins" but also one with small white stripe on head and one with white on throat and one with huge white chest!! Lovely;o)) Abbey has small milk chin and lovely white on chest(still very visible) And any decent judge will love the white too!!!;o) Beautiful pups Michaela and Ursula!!!

[Dee Rance]

I'm with you and everyone else that likes white on the Irish ''Red'' I just hope that I get some on my puppies, and on the one I hope to keep...Fingers crossed, as always!!!!

[Merete & Thomas]

Our pup Snoopy has a milk chin, and luckely she still have som left even now when she is 6 months :)
She is from Elin Wittusens US kennel in Norway and she has very often milk chins and white markings on her dogs chest.
Her are two examples, the first is US Red and the other is our US Snoop dogg: