Problems with hunting setter lovers?

[Michaela]

There are some people on this plathform wich seem to have some problems with hunting in general and specially with my pictures of duck-hunting - I have read the comments between Frances McKimm and Susan Morris - also some comments about the video of Petra.

When I startet to be member of "Exclusively Setters - Home for Irish Setter Lovers Around the World" I thoughted this would be also for Setter-Lovers which understand the setter as a hunting dog - I undestand me as setter-lover!

But I if I read the dialog (comments) between Frances and Susann I felt not very welcome on this site with telling hunting stories and showing hunting-pictures. Why I'm not worthy to be a Setter-Lover or Setter-breeder if I show some pictures of hunting with my setter? So I started to think about if it is better to open a new NING only for setter lovers which can accept the setter as an hunting dog - for pointing and versatile used hunting-dog.

On the other side I think it would be a shame to go on with seperating here at Exc.Setters the Setter-Lovers in Hunting and Non-Hunting-only-Showing - it would be poor for each side to do not know from the other side - it would be poor for the race also ..

I think to seperate the hunting ones in a special Ning would not be the solution - I hope - so hwo can we solve the problem?

This are my thoughts - sorry - also sorry for my bad english, I hope you understand what I want to express

[Petra Kasznár]

You expressed my thoughts and feelings, but I don't know the solution. Naturally I'm not against shows and show contents but seems that some people who consider themselves Irish Setter breeders are against the breed's original purpose, which is hunting! Not to be forgotten even in our modern XXIth century!!!!

[Susan Stone]

I fully agree with Camilla: Please stay!!!

It is one of the most wonderful things of this group that ALL interests in Irish Setters and Setters in general are represented, something that I'd say does not exist elsewhere. It would be a great shame if this diversity was lost.

Let's simply 'agree to disagree':-)) with no ill feelings.

Just as those not interested in showing need not follow show discussions, let those not interested in other 'fields' not follow these discussions.

[Christiane Lohmann]

Do you suggest that comments (which are actually published on main page) should be regarded as private affair and reading them is "looking through keyholes" ? I never thought those comments as being hidden secrets, but open to public, readable and visible to worldwideweb. And I doubt ANYBODY would like to be a matter of bad talk of the town in those comments, especially as they are no discussion, but a dialogue with locking out all others.
Discussion are nice and I enjoy them.
But as you write, you chose to go...maybe better a good-bye here instead.
Although Konfuzius also says: Never stop learning !;-)))) So, maybe welcome back soon.

[Catherine Carter]

You must stay here on this site! You may be an eye opener for certain people and there are a lot of new owners who do not understand the full history of the breed! All the Irish will still have more or less a hunting instinct! Although some dogs absolutely love going round a ring and 'showing off' some others will prefer to hunt in the field! As long as they are healthy, happy and well exercised on a daily basis I don't see a problem.

[ursula wilby]

The great thing about this site is the fact that we all do own and love setters.

The other great thing is the fact that although we have had some VERY heated discussions in the past (for anyone new on this site it may be interesting to read some of the earlier discussion-posts). Yet most of us are still around.

So lets keep this site exactly what the heading said and the way it was intended: Home for Irish Setter Lovers Around the World (and yes, Gordon, English and R&W as well)

It is just as interesting for those that hunt to see the other side as it is for the show-crowd to see what setters actually originally are bred for and what other work they can be used for.

[Kristina Brannlund Westin]

Michaela ofcourse you should stay!
This forum need to have us all. We can always learn something new from each other.Even if I am not a hunter, I can appreciate the lovely photos from hunting events. I think it is nice to see the setter in her right envirement.
It is really natural in some way.
So please stay with us!

Kristina

[Christiane Lohmann]

Michaela, please stay !
And don't worry to post more pictures. Those who make bad comments may learn one day, that it is necessary to hunt and all ducks etc. will end as a tasty dish. Those, who talk bad about hunters might learn, that if not enough ducks are shot by hunters, another desease will kill them much less human, (as we had recently. )
And maybe they will also understand, that laying game in a row of 10 or 20, surrounded by small fire is the end of the hunting day and nature and it's creatures are honoured. It is called the last tribute to the game and hunters take hats off and say thank you. Perhpas those who think bad about this, take a breath and think carefully about how much respect THEY have paid to their last meal ?
And all those, who regard this natural killing instinct as disgusting, should try to understand, there is much more under the red coat, than running in circles a few days each year;-)))
Maybe they will look at it from another point of view one day. Take them by the hand and let them join a day out hunting and what expression their dogs faces bear ! And don't listen to breeders who tell you it is not setterlike. I know offsprings from their stock that have also passed versatile tests in Germany, including blood track and following a living duck out of reed and shot in front of the dog....disgusting ? Rather not. Natural behaviour or at least, this should be...sadly some setters have lost it somewhere.

[Susan Stone]

Thanks for explaining, Christiane. I just assumed it to be a tradition, but did not know it meant paying a last tribute.

[Christiane Lohmann]

It is indeed very old tradition and has special rules as to on which side the game has to be laid and in which order when different game. When it is a hunting day on 'lower' game, i.e. game that peasants had permission to hunt (hares, rabbits, ducks, foxes etc.) in medieval ages, it is feathered game above furred game. For 'higher' game (deer, boars) - former only open for aristocracy - it had to be laid on its right side (heart side up) with a small green branch in its mouth, so called last bit to eat when travelling into another world and one green branch on the place of the heart, which is later given to the hunter who shot this animal. The hunter who shot the deer or boar may proudly wear it on his hat. But only on right side. (Left side is only for funerals of hunting friends.) Biggest game is right wing. In case a dog had to be called for following wounded game on blood trail, the hunter who shot will kindly split his twig and share this honor by putting it into the collar of the dog.
Coming back to the last tribute, it also always includes hornblown signals. Each game has its own 'last tribute' melody with special text.
This is indeed a very emotional ceremony...

P.S.: Moving game with a foot or jumping over it when laid down...gives penalty. In our area we still have the "hunting court", where bad behaviour like this is punished half seriously.

[Carmel Murphy]

Sound like lovely traditions!

[Michaela]

Thanks for your 2nd Welcome - and yes I want to stay, because I understand Exc.Setters like you have written:

Home for ALL Irish Setter Lovers Around the World

I was a little bit disappointed about the comments between these 2 members - but now they have removed their comments - ok

I have one demand: if someone have a problem with a picture showing death game - please contact me DIRECTLY .. maybe I can show it only for hunting friends or remove it from this site - it is not the problem for me

I think it is not a good behavior to do that behind so.'s back.

I'm glad to be part of this setter-loving-community - and I want to going on with this to learn from each other.

Thanks for participation on this discussion.

[Carmel Murphy]

I think this is what this site is all about!! All people who love setters(all varieties) and to share what we do with our dogs, some do hunting, agility, obedience, showing or like thousands of people in the world who just have these beautiful, funny, lively, intelligent, faithful dogs as companions(I could not live without them:o)) And discussions are a healthy part of this even if it gets a bit heated at times(guilty!!) But never intended as personal;o))