Problems with hunting setter lovers?

[Michaela]

There are some people on this plathform wich seem to have some problems with hunting in general and specially with my pictures of duck-hunting - I have read the comments between Frances McKimm and Susan Morris - also some comments about the video of Petra.

When I startet to be member of "Exclusively Setters - Home for Irish Setter Lovers Around the World" I thoughted this would be also for Setter-Lovers which understand the setter as a hunting dog - I undestand me as setter-lover!

But I if I read the dialog (comments) between Frances and Susann I felt not very welcome on this site with telling hunting stories and showing hunting-pictures. Why I'm not worthy to be a Setter-Lover or Setter-breeder if I show some pictures of hunting with my setter? So I started to think about if it is better to open a new NING only for setter lovers which can accept the setter as an hunting dog - for pointing and versatile used hunting-dog.

On the other side I think it would be a shame to go on with seperating here at Exc.Setters the Setter-Lovers in Hunting and Non-Hunting-only-Showing - it would be poor for each side to do not know from the other side - it would be poor for the race also ..

I think to seperate the hunting ones in a special Ning would not be the solution - I hope - so hwo can we solve the problem?

This are my thoughts - sorry - also sorry for my bad english, I hope you understand what I want to express

[Kristina Brannlund Westin]

You have a point there Anna!
Many haven´t seen it , because it was removed quite fast, because there were many bad reactions to it.
I fel sick just thinking about..

[Henk ten Klooster]

I've seen Irish setters killing roedeers.

One example was a sick roedeer escaping, in Denmark.

There were five huntingdogs, one Irish setter. She was the only one to outrun the roedeer, than immediately going for the jugular. The roedeer died immediately.

I've seen roedeers dying in nature. If you would be able to make a film of their dying process (which would make you cruel), it would tell you all.

Facts and emotions differ. Any dog able to kill a dying roedeer quick will end a life of misery (fact). And it never is a nice view (emotion).

[ursula wilby]

I do wonder if all people reacting in such a negative way to photos of dead ducks etc. are vegans?
(No I dont hunt, neither have I published any photos of dead animales...save a mole/rat killed by cats).

I do think that game, shot in the wild, has a FAR greater life than anything we humans breed, keep in small cages and then kill after a (in most cases) miserable life. I find it difficult to see the difference between salami in the shop and dead game. Apart from the fact that whatever is in the salami had a terrible life compared to the dead ducks laying in a row.

As long as we are willing to eat meat and wear leather-items we should know that we are all part of a way of treating animals that is MUCH WORSE than being a hunter.

[Kristina Brannlund Westin]

I can only talk for myself. The cows and sheeps that we kept had a great and lucky life and ended up without no fear and stress. I know that there are a lot of animals who is stressed and are living a miserable life and that is why it makes it so hard for me to buy meat in the store. We buy it from a farmer in the neiborhood.
I use to hunt when I was younger, and believe me that is far from humane all the time!
Have you ever been on moosehunting for example? When the moose have been shot on the wrong spot, walking for hours injured and bleeding. That is not humane!
Tell me, how many hunters who will put the bullet on the exactly right spot that kills the animal immediately? How many wild animals have to suffer for hours before they bleed to death, and all stressed up!
My point was that in the video that we could see here, was that the one who could have killed this poor roe deer, whas standing there filming it instead of ending his poor life. That was not humane.

[Dee Rance]

I have tried NOT to comment on this subject, but feel I have to step in. Firstly some Salami sometimes contains Donkey, perhaps some people will not eat any more sausage knowing that????
As far as the Video is concerned, I DID see it, and I agree with you Kristina.
I have kept 'large' animals (sheep, cows and pigs etc) I have always said of MY stock, they have had a short but happy life. That cannot be said of ALL livestock, some farmers treat their stock as just a commodity.
I have shot rabbits, bit if they were not killed outright then I have gone after them and 'put them out of their misery' this is the only humane thing to do, I think that everyone on this debate will agree, if an animal has to die then it should be done to the best of anyone's ability, and finished, I also think that killing for killings sake is wrong, the rabbits I killed went into the pot, (for me and the dogs) If we all became Vegans then the animals that are 'farmed' would disappear for ever. Only the 'pets' would survive, there would be no economical reason for keeping them. But.....a setter's instinct is to point and perhaps retrieve game, ie BIRDS, and small mammal's, so long as the people that are the hunters don't just kill for the hell of it then it is good to see a dog doing something that it was ''designed'' for, I wish my girls would do such a job, only one of them would be willing and interested to do it though..This video was dreadful instead of letting the dogs rip the Roe Dear apart the, so called hunter, should have shot the dear, and the dogs not left to play with it, I think that the end shot of the other hunter just kicking the dear to one side is irreprehensible!!!!

[ursula wilby]

Kristina,
I also have had both sheep and pigs, ducks, geese, rabbits and chickens that all ended up in our freezer.
Most of those animals were slaughtered at home and had (to my way of looking at it) a good life while they lived.
And yes the end came quickly.
I am not happy buying meat in the shops either.

On the other hand I am quite aware that the way my (or for that matter Kristinas) animals are kept and slaughtered is very rare indeed.
I doubt very much that any salami found in any shop will contain "happy" farm-animals.

No I have never been to a moose-hunt, only small game that was killed pretty much intantly. And if that did not happen, a dog would find it quickly and "put it out of its misary".
A slightly nicer and round-about way of saying "kill it".

As for the film, I have still not seen it, but I also feel the discussion has moved on to a level where setters should no longer be gun-dogs and therefor not do what gundogs were supposed to do.
That is the part I dont agree with...and I am not a hunter!
The fact that most setters no longer are used for their original purpose does not take away from what the breed was originally used for, and in many cases, still is capable off.

[Carmel Murphy]

Setters are and always will be "gun dogs" But I think a lot of people would consider a gun dog different from a hunting dog!! I would consider a gundog to be the assistant of the hunter in finding and retrieving small game and the hunting dogs track, find and kill game(as deer hounds, wolf hounds, fox hounds,terriers etc) Maybe that is where a lot of us differ in our view of hunting dogs!!! As far as I know setters in Ireland were not used to kill larger animals and mostly found and retrieved small game as did most of the pointing breeds!! I know my dogs would be happy to be gun dogs!! Birds are their passion!!;o))

[Anna Wymyslowska]

I am not against hunting but I have read that we cannot ignore that we have hunting dogs so I understand it is what we all have to do with our setters...

I am also not so delicate, but I don't like something about hunting photos. I think photos show something that we are proud of. Maybe it is only in Poland that you are very lucky to meet birds. I was at 2 FT and maybe 2 from 15 dogs had oportunity to point (had contact with birds) on each. On one FT there was a hunter that told us that 10 years ago when he go out for hunting he could bring more than 15 pheasants home, now there are almost no pheasants... So I have strange feelings about a photo with 8 dead pheasants.

About the happy live in wild: Few years ago we got pheasant from my parents friend. And what we was told is that they breed the pheasants, let them go free and then hunt.

[Renata Berlińska]

Anna, I see my photo doesn't let you sleep. I'd like to calm you a bit. First, in that hunting area pheasant hunting is allowed only twice a year. Second, each hunter can shot two pheasants only.Third, hunters are each year introducing new pheasants and contol size of their population. Fourth, the eighth pheasant is a duck.
So please let me still feel proud of this photo, it's a keepsake from times when Jager was healthy and happy. He will not go for hunting anymore and that means I will never see him such happy as that day.

[Kristina Brannlund Westin]

Hi Renata!

This is a very lovely photo of your dear friend and his catch.
Lovely colours and nature.
Too bad he ar not able to hunt anymore,

Kristina

[Carmel Murphy]

Its a lovely photo and he looks very pleased with himself!;o)) It looks like many, many old photos in books on irish red setter! You should be proud of it!

[Anna Wymyslowska]

I didn't look at your photo when I was writing and I didn't want to write directly about it. You know I am really sorry about Jager. But yes, the strange feeling I had was about some photos that you once put on seterkowo. One of them: http://gallery.seterkowo.com/main.php?g2_itemId=10129 Probably I remember this one you put here and this was my example inspiration.