Stubborn behavior?

[Jennifer Yow]

I have been training my Red to go to "place"; a bed he likes, by using his leash and treats. He will participate a few times. On the second release of Ok, he will lay on the floor and refuse to move. Should I ignore this or assist him up? He won't get up even for a treat! Is this a stubborn behavior or what?

[Jennifer Yow]

He does it well a couple of times, I may be over doing it! Thank You for the help! He is a very smart dog, and he probably wonders why I am forcing him to go to his bed! lol

[Sherry Miller]

I found with our Molly ( and our Irish lads before her) that mixing up training and making it a fun thing and full of a few treats but a lot of praise and petting kept their attention best. I try not to repeat the same request over and over in one session but to randomly spread it out thru out the day,,,,,and when they do it perfectly the first time you ask PRAISE them and play with them so they can't wait to repeat the happy experience.  Molly was a quick study in learning tricks and manners ( still can not figure out why someone would wish her to be put down but lucky for us as she came to live with us) so for her you really have to keep even her tricks all messed up...she will start into her own little routine of the whole lot of them and go ahead to the next one without a hand or voice signal if you don't. All I have to do is say " Do you want to do your tricks ?" and she heads for her favorite spot to do them...right smack in front of the television so she has everyone's attention!!  It is funny when she starts into her trick routine before I am even in the room....she knows how to play to her audience !  I just let her do her own show as I know she will end up with her choo choo train trick....and then step in with the Poor Molly and the belly rub that goes with it before starting with my hand or voice signals for her tricks and never in the same order!!  I find you just have to outsmart the smarty a lot here.  I do always end the session with either some play or the belly rubs she loves as that keeps her eager to perform!  Think the best tip is if either of you is getting frustrated it's time to stop for a while....play some ball or tug game for a bit and then let it go til later on training.  Happy voice usually means a happy and eager to please Irish in our home.

[Frans de Vos]

Setters are not very good in repeating stuf ..that is a fact ..

You reward him with a treat , so he can just think i'll stay down and get more treats...

You must expand the time for giving treats when he is on his place...so he understands that it is the meaning to stay..

If you always call him back ,he will be confuse'd ..and don't know what you want...

 

 

[Fran Griffin]

That IS not a fact. sighs.

Think it's about time I left this place permanently now.

[Howard Glansfield]

I have to agree with you Eva.  When we go out we say 'night nights' and they all troop into the 'other' living room with 'their' leather settees and where they stay till we return ,otherwise they are free to sleep and be where they want.I don't suppose this will meet with approval!

[Cornelia]

I perfectly agree with the three of you as well, that the dog is happiest and calm, I would even say content, when allowed to choose when and where to lay down and sleep. At our place all doors are open and Joy can freely roam around and choose her place. I do however think, that Jennifer did not mean 'go to your place/bed' as in going to bed ... how can I put this: I like to take Joy with whenever possible, for instance also to a tutorial. At moments like this, I have a foldable blanket, vetbed or cushion with for Joy and tell her to 'go to her basket/bed and lay down', because I think it better to tell her what is expected, than to constantly having to say no and off, because she maybe likes to roam around the room and greet everybody :-)). It is good for her as well, for she knows her blanket and settles down on her piece of 'home' - and if she prefers being with me, rather than home alone or in the car, she just has to accept, that I'm sometimes occupied otherwise and that it is noddie-time fo a while. I can only speak for myself - so this is my reason, why I taught Joy to go to her place and lay down - but it is not our daily routine!

[Jennifer Yow]

Yes Cornelia, that is exactly what I am trying to do. I just need to be able to cook without him underfoot. I have a broken foot and it is not exactly safe for me to be stepping over him to get to the frig, stove etc... 

My trainer said that any of his beds could translate into place? Not a particular bed.  I am not sure about that.

[Cornelia]

It is indeed interesting, how they roam around: Joy starts on her kiddy bed mattress besides my bed, then to the floor and back to the mattress - in the mornign hours, she moves down to the sofa and later on to her sofa chair. In summer she likes the cool tiles in our living room and the warm one's in the garden alternately... Thanks for the book tip btw. I just ordered my copy!

[Sherry Miller]

Never knew it was an option to not have them sleep where they want when you are gone...unless crated. Molly does tend to have one spot in each room she has claimed as her own lounging place,  Like Cornelia she has a blankie we take with us when we travel about with her that she knows is her spot to relax on. I love it when Molly comes sneaking down the hallway when we arrive home....you can tell she just woke up from sleeping all streched out on the bed...something she only does when we are gone as rest of the time she follows one of us around all the time so she does not miss anything.

   Here's how well trained Molly has Alan here...I had taught her to bring in daily newspapers here......she does a great job and is rewarded by praise from me but by a treat if Alan is the one asking her for papers.  On Saturdays there are three papers to bring in....so if she is lucky and Alan is asking her to bring him the papers that means three treats.....and then Sunday arrives with usually only one newspaper.  Today she trotted out and retrieved the Sunday paper for him...had her treat as she must bring it all the way to other end of the house to the kitchen for him....then ran back to the front door and woofed that another paper was out there....so he opens the door and lets her out....waits inside as she comes back and sits in front of door waiting to come in if weather is cold....lets her in and she trots to the kitchen with the second paper....gets the treat reward and goes off to play.  I look at the paper and notice that Molly has brought two identical newspapers in for Alan....seems she decided we needed the neighbors newspaper also!  Had to laugh as Alan snuck the other newspaper back to where it belonged but finally figured out the con game she has been playing on him at least once a week since winter began here.:) 

  Fran I hope you keep writing responses on here as we all learn so much from you....and like you I am afraid Molly is "owner trained" and the better for it.  So much easier than my gentleman were to train when I took the time to do it the best way for Molly and myself....and to her credit she is one of the nicest mannered Irish I have lived with.  My lads retrieved newspapers also but you had to go out with them as they would tend to get distracted and wander but Molly is really good about her boundaries....she actually will stop on a dime on the imaginary line we trained her to.....now if I can only get that newspaper delivery man to throw the neighbors paper onto their driveway instead of right on edge of her boundary!

    Voice tones are something that I have used in training here a lot....sometimes even a whisper can speak louder than any yelling would I have found...and hand signals are wonderful when you have company and you see her about to sneak her head onto the one person's lap in the room who is uneasy about being around any dog let alone a huge bouncing Irish Setter. That stay or down command sure comes in handy then...or my come to me signal which she knows means lots of petting .  I found I have really enjoyed working with Molly just to see what else I can teach her to do...anyone know any more tricks for us?

[Jennifer Yow]

I am actually only training him to "place" as a means to be able to prepare dinner, safety etc.. He has a dog bed in our bedroom, living room, and in a large laundry room where he stays during the day. He is allowed to sleep wherever he wants. We rescued him from the humane society about a month ago. We weren't sure if he would tear the entire house up. lol He wouldn't have any part of a crate, so he stays in a 10 x 10 laundry room with a window and his food, toys etc... during the day.  Sherry Miller your comments were very helpful! I trained him once today to place even without the leash, and then we played fetch!  I will mix it up from now on. He is very smart, and has not destroyed anything in our house. We have been very lucky, and love him very much. We are bonding well, with only positive reinforcement. He is already house trained and responds to a simple No.

Thanks for all the help!

[Sherry Miller]

Jennifer ,

  Our Molly is also a rescue at what we believe was about 10 months ....so I know all too well those bonding and what will he do when we are gone issues.  Happy to say Molly is very well bonded to all three of us, extremely well mannered in the house, smart as a whip and just a joy. We noticed some issues first week she was home with us...and if you called her the name she had been called before she would cringe,,,also afraid of anything like a broom, flyswatter or even the newspapers and raised voices.  No issues any longer with any of those but still will act very sheepish if she hears loud voices.  I wish you lots of joy and fun with your Red....and if I can help in anyway just let me know,  How lucky you were to find him at your Local Humane Society .....I know I watched our local ones here for two years before finding our Molly.  Sometimes I wish I knew where she came from (breeder wise and health issues that might run in her line) but have decided we live each day to the fullest and take it from there . Love and enjoy Red and I bet you get more back from Red than you give just as we have with our Molly.

[Jennifer Yow]

Oh, thank you for the encouragement! Yes, he has given us great joy in only a months time. We changed his name, it is actually Red. Ha, ha My husband loves the color red. 

We already wonder why we didn't have him sooner! The only health issue we have had are two rotten teeth. He is about a year old, we don't know why this happened. All of his other teeth are good. We had them cleaned and the two rotten ones pulled. That was rough on all of us, but he is doing well now! 

Thank you again!