Newbie wanted to get ideas for some problems with my dog

[Sue and Cash]

I don't see much discussion on problems, but with the world of knowledge in here, hopefully you have ideas for me. Dublin is a fantastic dog, I got so lucky again. BUT....(always a but) I have a daily issue that is causing me a great deal of stress. Setters are talkers. Big talkers and he is very vocal about everything. We go daily for his run to the dog park which is about a 15 minute drive. His excitement every day results in whining, singing and then full out barking the whole way. I have to say that at times I am at my wits end and it is almost hard to concentrate on the road during this. He is tethered to the rear of my hatch so he can only stay directly behind me. I drive a VW GTI, so he has tons of room with my seats down but not enough room for that kind of crazy barking in my right ear. How do you teach a dog to quiet down. HE will for a cookie of course, but I can't drive and do training at the same time! Going home is settled and calm because he is beat. It is just the ride to the park that is the problem. Its odd because he doesn't do it on the way to petsmart, and he loves it there also. It is the anticipation of the RUN that does it. He is very stimulated to the other cars around us zipping by and to anyone on the street for that matter. He is quite territorial about our property and car. Looks almost vicious but he is really a sweetheart. Ideas? Or is it a lost cause that I have to live with?

[ursula wilby]

You may hate "non-profeccinal"-talk, but I think before you make a sweeping statement like that you would be well advised to find out who you are giving this lable to. I think you would find that several of us do actually work with our dogs and have achieved quite a lot when it comes to complicated dog-training.

I do admit that I have no experience whatsoever when it comes to e-collars. In Sweden these have been forbidden for very many years and if they are used here (and I dont doubt they are if you say so) this is done against the animal protection-laws in the country. And there is a reason that these laws were drawn up in the first case.

And yes, Pavlov...I do work according to the food-rules...that is how I teach puppies from the age of 3 weeks to respond to my whistle.

[ursula wilby]

I have tried to watch the vidio, but my internet-connection is not fast enough for most films. This one becomes all jerky both in picture and speach...so I can not quite get the hang of it.
Sorry...

[ursula wilby]

I have seen plenty of violence to all sort of creatures, and of course there are FAR worse things done to animals than using an e-collar on a dog.

But as far as I am aware we are here discussing a pet owner trying to break her dogs bad habbit. No seasoned trainer, but a person that has a pet-dog with an unwanted behaviour-pattern.

For many europeans on this site (where e-collars are banned), it is only natural to look at devices like the e-collar with great suspicion.
We DO train our dogs with good results and (now that you are asking) NO I do NOT punish my dogs during any type of training.
However wrong (I think) they may be...I will repeat the same excersise until I get it right. After all, it is I that have to be clear enough and able to explain what I want from the dog.
Punishment would not get that from my dogs.
Reward will.

[Susan Stone]

Thank you, Ursula. I felt the discussion was going too far in the direction of what is considered (by some) necessary to train a US Field Champion, wheras we are actually on the more basic theme of training the family pet.

Gennadi you are quite right that there ARE worse forms of violence than the e-collar, but I certainly do not advocate those measures either! I have experienced many forms of training over the years and have reached the conviction that it is far better to PREVENT problematic behaviour from developing. This is done by positive re-inforcement of the required behaviour and is far easier than the CORRECTION of an established unwanted behaviour.
And even then, re-establishing the required behaviour can normally be reached without resorting to any form of violence.

[Agnieszka Rola]

I think the biggest problem is that you shouldn't give an advice to use an e-collar on this topic, to person who own a pet dog and wants to solve one problem. As I wrote before I CAN NOT IMAGINE THAT EVERY OWNER COULD USE E-COLLAR ANYTIME HE WANTS, that is absolutely unacceptable,
...and you as a "profi trainer" should know about it.
that's all.

[Sue and Cash]

I can totally understand why countries ban the use of the e collar. The potential for misuse is great. BUT....I also having owned a Brittany also for years and know of a well respected Brittany breeder who absolutely uses the collar for field training certain dogs. And he stresses how much knowledge is needed to it properly. Dub is just my pet. I was just trying to nip a big problems in the bud before it got out of hand. He has the need to communicate more than other dogs might. And that barking is dangerous in the car. In my house I probably could just deal with it. But I have lost hearing in my right ear! That is the side he barks on. Something I found interesting is that he hates smoke. And I smoke. I refrain from smoking in the car with him because he sneezes and gets a bit upset about it. Moviing to the rear of the car etc. But once in a while he has me so frazzled that I have lit one with the windows down. He stops barking! So yesterday when he was getting too excited and yapping away, I pulled my pack out. He stopped barking and moved to the back of the car and sat down quietly. I had to chuckle that my new training method might be to pull out the pack. Not even lighting one, and he gets focused again. Silly sounding I know. But it did give me quiet for a bit. I think that seeing the pack of cigerettes brings him back to the moment and gets him out of the frenzy he goes into with the anticipation of the run.

[ursula wilby]

Perhaps not the training method you would recomend, Susan...but if it works...well I would certainly go for it!

Good luck! :-)

[Frances McKimm]

You can 'make or break' a dog with an e-collar and it is certainly not for the amateur user; so if in doubt and unsure of yourself with it, don't use it!
See you've found your own little trick! If the cig pack works then go for that!
Though not so good for your own health!! But at least you have a nice quiet dog;

[Esther Siegrist]

I NEVER would train a Setter with a e-collar. and also it's nod allowed in Switzerland!! and thanks Agnieszka, I would say the same!
Some years ago, I have a dog ho was a very vocal (a German Shepherd) He also talk when he was exidet for walk, training ....
So we lern him with a command to bark. and also with a command to stop them. Very simple!!!
And now, I train with any dog I have early. Never again this problem.

SORRY for my english :-)

[colette tuite]

I am saddened to think that Gennadi thinks the only way to get a field trial champion setter is to use an e collar on the modern sporting dog.I owned and trained a field trial champion Irish Setter and field trained many other irish,pointer and gordon setter to winning awards at field trials and i never used an e collar.
I strongly believe that i want a dog to want to please me.This is based on mutual trust and effusive praise.If i even sounded cross, my Misty(FT CH Rua Connemara of Porschet) wouldnt do anything for me as she was so sensitive.

I thought that if your barking Irish travelled in the front seat you would be closer to him and be able to rectify the situation rather than if he travels in the back where you cannot make contact with him. If the cigs work then well and good.

[Frances McKimm]

So now reality is mad dogs that can only be trained with e-collars???
Excuse me but then I prefer the good old times and good old methods they worked!
And in no way can a GSP be compared to an Irish Setter;

[Henk ten Klooster]

Alas I know of owners dying in a car-accident with Irish setters "free" in the car. But I understand what Colette means, having had setters on the frontseat - no problem. But I would not recommend it everybody.

As for e-collars here an inbetween. They do work perfect as a just in case last chance to stop, especially important for those people depending on urbanized areas to train. On the other hand I've seen setters spoilt for a long time or even forever by e-collars. Wisdom is in reading a setter - where one is blown away just by a basstone another might need much more.

The OId School here was no punishment but stimulating and in case of wrong no attention (how painfull). This was a charming school, with lots of wisdom.