Animal Protection: Stop inbreeding, open registries, ban unhealthy breeds, curtail shows

[Henk ten Klooster]

Ban unhealthy breeds, attack inbreeding by opening up of registries permanently, stop breed standard exaggeration, curtail shows.

That is the advice of the Animal Protection the Netherlands (Dierenbescherming). With more than 40% of purebred dogs something is wrong, states the organization. Main source of that according to Animal Protection: dogshows.

Most Dutch media were focusing on this these days, after broadcasting of the British documentary Pedigree Dogs Exposed on television.

How is that in your culture and what is your opinion?

[Margaret Sierakowski]

Dou you (or anybody else) have any more information about the incidence of bloat in lines of working Irish Setters (red or red and white)?

[Cheryl Gorey]

Yes, I agree from the discussions here, there appears to be many breeders/owners of IS who have experienced problems with GDV (and stomach problems ?associated or not)

I have said in another post that Australia has not had much exposure to GDV (in the UK type IS lines) until more recently. I have talked to a number of breeders who have bred IS in Australia for 20-30 years and they have never experienced it in their lines. Personally I can say that there have been too many cases identified in the last 5-8 years that I know of.

In respect of the USA lines in Australia I am aware of a number of cases here in Australia including one litter where 3-4 have suffered from this. One lady I know who has owned USA type IS for over 20 years has had a number of her dogs bloat over the years. Her dogs were the only ones I had heard about until more recently.

I have talked to a lady in USA who was involved in a research program and she had experience of bloat in 2 of her litters with 3 in the first and 4 in the second, however, 2 from the first litter were older than 10 years old when they bloated.

I don't have any information about GDV in the working lines in Australia and I'm not sure who is on this list who may be able to help with that.

I think it would be great to have a database of health issues set up and then we would know how big the problems are that we are facing. I hope that it isn't as bad as it seems!

[Cheryl Gorey]

Hi Ursula, that's fine. I was just wondering whether we could have the opportunity for the IS to be included. I wasn't expecting to be involved personally! Bit far away down under. :-)).

I am so pleased you haven't had many problems with bloat. The gastropexy, I believe, has a very good success rate (about 90%) of preventing the twist from reoccurring.

[ursula wilby]

Cheryl, what I ment was mailnly that it might not be too easy finding enough setters in Sweden that have had bloat and if this is not a problem in the breed here, I am not certain that vets in Sweden would want to look for a gene.

[Cheryl Gorey]

I think that is a great start Eva, thank-you. I will have to put mine together first!

Should we start a separate section, so that it doesn't get lost in the discussions. I have been plucking information out of discussions and putting it together in respect of GDV and other health issues recently as it is difficult to go through all the discussions to find what I am looking for.

[Cheryl Gorey]

I have asked Gene about whether we can have a Health Section on ES, but ufortunately it is not able to be set up here to enable everyone to key in pedigree details, etc. I will post another discussion on this topic to guage interest and advice from others.

[eva ciechonska]

Totally agree with you Margaret. And it used to be a gentleman' club which resisted the membership of women for years to boot. I am not a member nor have ever wanted to be.

[eva ciechonska]

This is also a repy to Susan's text. It might be not that easy but that doesn't mean we shouldn't keep trying.

[Cheryl Gorey]

I agree, there is a very wise saying "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has" written by Margaret Mead,

If we just give up we will never get there, but it we keep trying and make it, it will be worth all the hard work and we can all celebrate!!!

With the internet and e-mail, we can all contribute from all over the world and I offer my support in whatever way possible to achieve a positive outcome and progress to improve the health of our outstanding breed.

The other lesson to learn from this exercise, I believe, is that the organisations that Henk speaks of, will be watching. If they can see that the breeders/owners of purebred dogs are making a concerted effort to improve the health of our dogs (and we should make sure they are aware of our efforts), then we may well get some support from unexpected corners of the globe!!! "Am I being too optomistic??"

Have a wonderful Christmas everyone. It has been great being involved in such a great group of Setter Lovers.

[Henk ten Klooster]

A lot of posts here like Cheryls and Eva's show the need for facts without opinions.

You hit here the biggest problem in Irish setter circles in my eyes: open, reliable information worldwide about ALL cultures for example working Scandinavia as well, is painfully missing. Often years later, relevant information about for example bloat is reaching fanciers.

This could be achieved by sending all clubmagazines etc.to one address (communication IR(W)S worldwide from where relevant info can be spread. Here or elsewhere in a news- and background section especially made for this, so that it will not be completely snowed under by things that live most on this website.

The communication address could be made up of those specialising in all aspects relevant like vets, geneticists, journalists, breedhistorians etc

Something to work out in 2010? What do you think? Gene?

[Pat Aldridge]

I am new to this website but here in New Zealand have been breeding Irish Setters from Wendover lines and English Setters from Suntop and Valsett lines for 40-0dd years. I would like to comment on GDV and HD. I cannot comment on epilepsy as I have only ever had one Irish (imported from UK many years ago by emigrating owners) who had epilepsy - she was never registered here in NZ & was speyed. I have never bred an Irish with epilepsy.

In that 40 years I have had 2 Irish GDV - one 11 years old bitch, one 9 year old bitch. Both 1st time GDV. The 11 year old had 3 litters (linebred) - none of her puppies ever bloated. The 9 year old was never mated (she didn't fancy men at all!) - this was a long time ago before AI was something one did to get puppies. Other breeders of Irish have had GDV in their dogs with the same lines - it has, IMHO, a lot to do with temperament, feeding, environment, as well as genes. I had one other bitch 1st time GDV at 8 years - an English Setter who always ate like a vacuum cleaner!

I have always believed honesty in breeding dogs is paramount. I will undoubtedly get "flak" from making the next statement, but here goes - I have never HD Xrayed my Irish or English Setters, but then I would never use a dog or bitch that doesn't move well - and this is set in concrete. No exceptions made. 40 years of observing breeders Xray, use dogs for breeding with clear/excellent hips, rearing well, & still have dysplastic puppies. An NZVA report recently here in NZ came to the conclusion (well supported with data) that HD had not markedly decreased over all breeds since Xraying became the "norm" - I believe GSDs have improved slightly. I suspect that many vets have had an ongoing income from breeders via HD Xrays - one becomes a little cynical after 40 years in the dog world LOL! My usual vets often comment that if they relied on me to put bread and butter on their tables, they would starve...

Now a question - can one of you point me in the direction of a programme to work out COIs that doesn't cost the earth - better still, free? OR can anyone on this List do it for me if I sent the pedigrees?

[Catherine Carter]

Leen from Belgium is an expert on COI and genetics....she will help you with your pedigrees I am quite sure as she is very interested in breed diversity.