Did the breed change or not since the sixties?

[Henk ten Klooster]

Did the Irish setter breed change in half a century or not? In a topic elsewhere there is a statement  the breed did not change in fifty years.

 

What is your opinion? Did the breed change yes or no, if yes in what aspects (conformation, health, character, working capacities)? Can you document your opinion? Same for no changes in your opinion, can you document that?

 

Here is a kick off with an article on the Derrycarne Irish red setters, bred by Maureen Mc Keever, published in 2003 in The Leitrim Guardian, written by Kevin Mc Manus. Her activities cover a large part of the period mentioned in the statement. She bred more key Irish setters in both show and working nowadays Irish setters. Would these still be able to win - show and/or work?

 

Because there was some interest in Derrycarne history, on request a story is added on a daughter of Derrycarne Harp - Ailean O'Cuchulain. Its entitled Devils Dearest, written as a tribute.  On request as well a story Hartsbourne Flame was added. She was a shower of hail and littersister to IRCH Derrycarne Martini. 

[Carmel Murphy]

You have lost me there Evie!! What or where is Cabraxch??;o))

[eva ciechonska]

Dear Carmel, not me........I am a Surrey girl. Try Ossian.........

[Carmel Murphy]

Hi Eva!! "Ossian" is Evie;o)) She is a regular visitor to our shows here in southern ireland;o)

[Margaret Sierakowski]

The Cabrach is where I live . Its the Cabrach and Glenfiddich estate
Used to be owned by the Dukes of Gordon, so its where the Gordon Setters originally came from.
And its where Edward Laverack rented the shooting in the nineteenth century, and brought his dogs up here to "break" them. You will find it mentioned in his book.
And its where the North of Scotland Gundog Association used to hold their field trials until they moved to Tillypronie - people like Mrs Nagle used to bring their setters here to compete in the trials
Evie will get her wish in August when she has very kindly volunteered to look after my dogs so I can go down for the trials in the borders

[Carmel Murphy]

Thanks for the explanation Margaret!! Excuse my ignorance on matters Scottish;o) Had heard of Glenfiddich before though! I am ashamed to say I have never been to Scotland;o( I must do so soon;o) Evie will be in heaven in August !!!

[Ossian]

Carmel now that I know you havent been to Scotland I will take some pics in August when I am at Margaret's and download them for you. Imagine being near the ground where Gordon Setters roamed. Not far from the Isaac Sharpe kennels site... I will be in heaven!!

Norna has her wee bag packed already... Goin to Granmas!!!

[Rosie Dudley]

I beleive this incredible old film clip is of Isaac Sharpes kennel in 1932

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=19127

[Margaret Sierakowski]

"Yesterday we were in Donegal and met a very nice woman with a 6 year old IRWS 'companion dog'. He was following her around the main town with no lead and showed absolutely no interest in Fergus who was desperately trying to get his attention. I hope not to offend anyone with a dog like this but it seemed totally unnnatural for this breed and for some reason it upset me."

One of my first IRWS Flint (Colona Caird) was like that, he didnt need to be on a lead and would just walk quietly to heel. I've walked Flint down Princes Street in Edinburgh without a lead, crossed roads in heavy traffic, and taken him on trains, even down to London and crossed central London with him

And most of our springers didnt need to be on leads, they were trained to walk to heel , and they did even in town centres and in traffic. When we crossed a road, they would automatically sit at the curb, then cross when told to

However I have to admit that most of my IRWS are not so good at walking to heel , a setter's natural place is out in front of you somewhere :))
There is one of my IRWS living in Newry in Ireland with Catherine Harvey who is a very good dog trainer, he also walks with her around the town , off lead but to heel, no problem

[Ossian]

You have to think about "heel free" I know an owner who walks his dog regularly on the Thames Embankment. We were discussing the problems of Setters taking off after a rabbit or deer.
He was quite smug and said his dog walked to heel regardless of the distraction,,but - on the Thames Embankment - he had never had the good fortune to have disturbed a rabbit or a deer!

My point is that you can train for practically everything - except idiots and the environment!
So really - heel free is always a dicey exercise!

[Carmel Murphy]

Look forward to the photos of your August "holiday" in Cabrach and please include the pretty Norna in some of the shots;o))

[Carmel Murphy]

Yes sounds like a very well behaved dog!! My older male Milo does not like young dogs in his face and will totally ignore youngsters who want to play, until he decides otherwise!!!

[Rhys Davenport]

Hi Finn
Yes! I believe dogs Do recognise their own kind. Whenever Riley meets another Setter (of whatever kind) he reacts differently towards them than he would to any other dog. He stops short and, I know I'm anthropomorphasizing here, but I read his expression as recognition. I first noticed this at Gun Dog shows wandering around with Riley.