Hi, hunters, could you share with us your knowledge, experience of hunting dogs

[Anna Kazimierowicz]

Still not learnt 84 posts about problems with hunters.
New topic, and a photo as a gift for hunters (other setters lovers ass well).
In stead of arguing could you talk with not so experienced setter owners abouT:
- how to practice with setter to point,
- how to choose a best puppy in litter, best means excellent nose, hunting instinct,
- do you have some method to chake up noses of puppies,
- what age you make these tests,
- what age you start any hunting practice with puppy,
- how to incite love to water when setter doesn't like to swim,
- how to control and stop emotional setter when he want to rush birds,
- how to teach setter ignoring game: hare, deer etc.,
- how to accustom setter (esp. when he doesn't live with hunter) to shots,
- how to practice aport,
- how to teach setter obedience.
etsettera, etsettera, etsettera, etsettera...
(I found on this site somebody with this pedigree, great, fantastic name for setters kennel!!!:))))
Each one has his own experience, we can choose information on cases, methods, solutions with problems...
When my Bajka was young, I knew nothing about this, she passed field trial (not contest, but proof) when she was more than 2 years old, when we were in field, commision ask me to put Bajka in the meadow to find bird, she did it in few seconds, there were quails which Bajka feeled and hunters commision saw, but I didn't.
Ten years later thing differ, but I still learn this things to teach my Kruszyna.
So instead arguing in bad way let's talk about hunting setters...

[Katariina Roiha]

Most certainly I´m not an expert but 19 years of experience of living with FT-type setters I have begun to understand the breed...
I feel that what you Anna do by asking with interest is by far the best way to narrow the gap between people like on this forum. I have read discussions with this and that with interest and sometimes I really don´t understand people. People that share a connection to nature by a dog and still some are far away from it all...which is sad.

I´ll be short in my answers...
- how to practice with setter to point,
You hopefully do not have to. It has to be in his/her genes. Out of situations that connect the wild gamebirds a setter eventually starts to point or take a set(as in setters). But you have to offer him those situations
.
- how to choose a best puppy in litter, best means excellent nose, hunting instinct,
I have frozen birds in my freezer. I take one puppy at a time to the yard or to a another room where I have hid the grouse for examle. Quite fast the little one snifs up in the air and goes towards the amazing smell of the grouse. I haven´t bred that many litters so I can not say if I had any bad setters growing up. Everyone had a pretty strong instinct in them...
I believe that out of excellent parents come excellent hunters...

- do you have some method to chake up noses of puppies,
no, actually I don´t understand the chake up-thing :))

- what age you make these tests,
5 weeks

- what age you start any hunting practice with puppy,
When the puppy is old enough and capable of walking long days in the mountains( about 6months, of course hunting days are shorter with a puppy that age)

- how to incite love to water when setter doesn't like to swim,
I believe that every puppy loves water but the early experiences with water have a tremendous impact on how he grows up to love or dislike water. Try to avoid situations where the puppy gets afraid of water. Strongheaded, good nerved setters are not so sensitive to frightening things, they don´t care about little accidents concerning cold water. A hot day is best for getting familiar with water. That is not possible in every case

- how to control and stop emotional setter when he want to rush birds,
Never, ever in any case let the puppy chase anything. That saves you a lot of training. It won´t affect the rushing of game when the dog has allowance to do it. Tease him with throwing things(balls etc.) and the dog is not allowed to run after until you let him
- how to teach setter ignoring game: hare, deer etc.,
We simply say "NO" when we see reindeers. If the dog seems to warm up i shake him up a little and say"NO!" with a even more demanding tone. It is very important for the dog to know what "No" means...it is something that is forbidden - always and forever

- how to accustom setter (esp. when he doesn't live with hunter) to shots,
Go to a shooting track or what is it called. Start walking towards it from a distance when the puppy is small. Play with him and give him/her treats. Don´t go too near on the first time...take step by step

- how to practice aport,
Encourage the puppy to carry anything, even shoes. Do not ever say "NO" when he has something in ones mouth. Always ask him/her to bring the thing in the mouth to show what he has. And together you two, are proud of what he has. Give it back to him and after awhile change the thing to a treat

- how to teach setter obedience.
How to teach any dog obedience? Setters are as easy as any dog if you start with early age. If you wait too long, setters are intelligent breeds and won´t fall for "idiotism" anymore. Setters think that obedience training is for dummies :-))))
Haahaa haa, hope you understand!?!?

[Carmel Murphy]

Thanks for all that! Its nice to get info on specific hunting related training!::o))

[Henk ten Klooster]

And keep smiling even when your red setter seems crying laughing about yout at a safe distance!!!!

[ursula wilby]

As for hunters choosing the "right" puppy, I have seen this in action.
At least Katariina choses to test with a frozen bird. :-)

The variety I have seen has been with a meatball. The puppy that finds it first...well, I knew beforehand that it would be the greediest puppy.
And it was!
The one first to dive in to the feedingbowl!
It turned out to be a great dog for hunting, but perhaps any other puppy would have done just as well. Or can it be that food-drive is connected to the will to hunt?

[Katariina Roiha]

Actually this process of choosing the best hunter is pure bull***. Every dog out of good parents has the same genes. The insticts, obedience and hunting skills come out if the owner has the time, environment, constant will and desire to offer the puppy the right stimulus and motivation to become a good hunter. That is my opinion...

Of course we have dogs in every breed that as individuals have a better nose. Other wise the police department and army would have too much to choose from which they don´t.

I think this test that I do is just funny. More important that the ability to smell a bird is the character of the puppy. And that the character mixes with the new owner. That way they can succeedas a hunting couple.
I am not denying that in a litter there could be one that is somewhat bad. But there might be a fysiological problem in that individual...

[ursula wilby]

I totally agree with you Katariina!
When I choose a puppy for obedience, I go for contact.

There has got to be something between me and that particular puppy, so that is why I dont go for standing them all up and choosing the one that has the best head and angulation.

No wonder I never end up with the best looking puppy!
On the other hand, I will end up with the one that is right for me.

I know that if I am going to put in all the work, effort, dedication and time that obedience-work requires, I will get it easier if I have contact to begin with.

I tell all the puppy-buyers to do the same, choose with their heart instead of anything else. Ah yes...and then I want a wild one...:-)

[Carmel Murphy]

I find I do the same when choosing a show type pup! I like a confident cheeky pup who is a bit bold!! I dont always pick the prettiest bitch!! As I also may do agility or obedience(just for fun) I need a certain personality too!! My german shepherd Luka picked me and I loved his confident manner also!

[ursula wilby]

Obedience for fun?
Hey Carmel, Obedience is ONLY for winning!!!!!!!!!!!

Just joking :-)

[Carmel Murphy]

Thats my problem!! I'm not very competitive!;o)))

[Dee Rance]

All my puppies have chosen me, all but one, and I must say that the last one turned out to be 'full of character' well she is completely NUTS!!! but I love her to bits, she has 'started' to learn to work and she is reasonable as a show dog, and hopefully will be good as a brood bitch, what more can you ask for in a dog?????

[Anna Kazimierowicz]

First off all, thanks Katariina for your answers. Thanks other persons for adding new posts.
Maybe for somebody is funny give these questions here but I know few persons who visit this site, they are interested in hunting work with their setters and are just on the begining on that way.
Years ago in Poland we have had common opinion that setter is a dog only for family and show.
HUnters in their own circle work with dogs, but rather other breeds, for years most popular was german P.D. because he can be a versatile dog for hunter.
Last 2-3 years in Poland we had few courses for pointing dogs owners organized by Vizsla Club. It was very interesting take part in them. There are plans for another trainings with setters.
Meanwhile we can learn a bit here as well.
I've read 86 posts in discussion about problems with hunters... Happily there were interesting posts of history of breed, not only arguing.
I've found information about "catching pheasants that were caught with glue traps" - it was passus about hunt in previous ages by Christiane. Does anybody can explain what was this glue trap and what look that hunting like?

[Henk ten Klooster]

Years ago in Poland we have had common opinion that setter is a dog only for family and show. wrote Anna.

In the nineties we used to train & trial with huge groups of setters and pointers in Poland, organized by the Irish Setter Club of Germany. With international trials and Cacits from three countries, Austria, Switzerland, Germany. Thats when I wrote Poland partridge paradise.

So surprised to read about that common opinion - especially a setter able to point and retrieve fur and feathers could do a great job over there.

By the way I'll never forget your beautiful terrains, not only because of being lost with two red setters in a snowstorm, a statue of Maria offering help. As well because my dog Kay became as a youngster forever harefree over there. The hare stood up and beated him with its forelegs in the face!!! He never chased them.