Palmerston line?

[Michaela]

5 puppies of the litter between my Irish Setter male dog Lohmann’s Milan and the bitch Lohmann’s Krambambuli at the Kennel Wenzl’s Master of desaster have more or less a white line on their heads. Somewhere I’ve read something of the “Palmerston-line”. The white line on their heads could be a criteria of their ancestry going back on of the founding dogs of that Irish Setter race Ch.Palmerston, KCSB 5138. I’ve read in the book “Pointer und Setter” of Waldemar Marr, that Palmerston was a single-colored Irish Setter with a white blaze on his head and that he was a strong inheritor. A sign of a closer relationship to that ancestor Palmerston could be the “Palmerston-line” – a white line on the heads.
So I have read only that Palmerston was a “big Champion with many titles” – so my question is: what titles? Working titles or Showtitels? And the other question is: could anyone show my more pictures of Palmerston on which you can see the white blaze?

[Dee Rance]

I am with you Catherine love the white, had one with a very dark coat a huge white chest and a white star.
Alek...how do people put a beautiful face like that down just because he had a white star...shame on them...

[Henk ten Klooster]

Not especially Palmerston in his lines is spectacular! Tell us more! Most Irish setters have him many tens of thousands times or hundreds thousands times in their pedigree!!!!

[Frances McKimm]

My very first show Irish all those many years ago, had a 'Palmerston star' and had great success in the show ring and I did so love it; more rare nowadays though;

[Angela Roberts]

Absolutely agree Dee. That head is beautiful Alek. Don't know how any judge could pass that one by.

[ursula wilby]

I have had ONE puppy with a small white mark on its head...but that is out of 22 litters...totaling 191 puppies. I would love to have one again!

[Dee Rance]

I had a couple in my first litter, and the one that stood out was the boy I was talking about before, large star, and white on chest from point of shoulder to point of shoulder to half way under the chest and set off by a very heavy dark coat, lovely boy, have wanted another ever since, am keeping fingers crossed...This dog was whelped in the early to mid 70's

[Henk ten Klooster]

Hi Michaela, white adds to red pupfun so enjoy. You better call it Ch Garryowen white, because this son of Ch Palmerston did have a white star. Not Palmerston, he did have a "slight snip of white on the nose" (quote colonel Millners book).

That slight snip of white of Palmerston may have been a complete blazes (your words) when he was a pup. I had several pups here with a white blazes (like their dam), alas becoming a slight snip of white when growing up. And no one got her white on the neck, much appreciated by a peregrine falcon high in the air when she was on point.

Lets call it music of the past, when such dogs like Garryowen were main actors in the novel of the twentieth century Ulyssus (James Joyce). By the way one of his sons was White Star. This fading white sometimes inspired arts latest the youthbook on White Star, Irish setter on the Titanic, its writer inspired by the past books of Jim Kjelgaard like Big Red.

So enjoy your music of the past until it fades or not.....

[Michaela]

@ all: thanks a lot for your kind words - thanks for that exchange of opinions.

@ Henk: thanks, you find the right words for me .. "music of the past" .. and clearing the clouds about history.

The puppies are so sweet with that little white stripes on their head - I hope that some of them haves that white star also when they are older ..

But one question: did enyone of you have a better picture of Palmerston or maybe Garryowen??? Maybe a photo from that head in New York??? I only find that pictures of Palmerston, but I couldnt see the white snip on it

[Agnieszka Rola]

a little bit straying of the topic :) ...18 years!!!! what a beautiful age!!!

[Henk ten Klooster]

White on Palmerston and Garryowen mentioned in all publications differs even here as you no doubt noticed.

Coloner Millner lived in Palmerston times so is quite a close source, Irish and visiting the US of A regularly. Plus in all writings very reliable. Thats why I chose him to quote.

The most recent book of Raymond O'Dwyer quotes Millner a lot, but still provides two options: nose and nose and forehead up to the crown of the head.

Yes his brother Ch Count (out of Ch Belle) was sometimes preferred. The history of (fading) white tells quite a few lessons on historiography.

[Londa Warren]

Sorry, Palmerston is no longer at the Astoria. Too bad, because I would really like to see what we call the "Palmerston Strip" (not stripe, but strip). Evidently he was donated to the Irish Setter Club of America many, many years ago and his location has disappeared from public knowledge. Perhaps he had become degraded, or is sitting in someone's attic. I've been searching for him for many years. If I ever find him, you guys across the sea will hear the shouting from here!

Londa

[Henk ten Klooster]

One of breeds mysteries I tried to get some light on, was disappearance Ch Palmerstons head, once mounted & displayed in Waldorf Astoria Hotel in New York.

Clippings of British dogpress from the fifties brought one answer.

In 2001 I finally met the source of the writer of one of those clippings in the Kentucky Wildlife Reservate, old and grey Herm David himself a writer. He confirmed what was written in the fifties, the famous head became a source of anger for the woman who did the cleaning, attracting so much dust.

She threw it away wit rest of "garbage"....

But maybe someone picked it up????