Preference when breeding?

[John B. Hughes/Absinthe]

I get the impression that some here think the perfect Irish setter is either kennel specific/country specific/inbred or outbred specific/beauty versus function specific/or just some nebulous specific.  If it is not out of an English pure kennel, then somehow it has  been contaminated.  If it has been bred to a US Irish setter - most of which go back to English kennels-   then somehow AKC has influenced and contaminated their line.  If it has too much or too little coat-straight or wavy, what to do or apologize for?  So what do most of you look for when breeding and how open is your mind to other kennels/other types/other countries and types when you consider breeding?  Are most here willing to go out of the box and take a chance or stay with what they think they know and continue on as they always have?      

   

[eva ciechonska]

In Eve Gardner's *Irish Setters Today" there are photos of a UK bred dog prepared in the American style and in the European style. It is amazing how you can alter the look of a dog just by judicious grooming!!!
No one has yet answered my question about breeding for head type. When did the American standard change from the original. Neither the FCI nor the UK standard mentions distance between the eyes while the US standard requires (eyes) "placed rather well apart". Maybe this is why the American bred dogs look plain in expression compared to the European dogs. The UK standard is closer to the original in it's description of head shape/eyes/ears than the US. When did this change and why?
Another point that has always fascinated me.......tails. If the American standard calls for the tail to be "set on nearly level with the croup as a natural extension of the topline........carriage straight or curving slightly upward nearly level with the back" then why do handlers stack their dogs with the tails almost bolt upright?
These are just questions........not a declaration of war. I would like to know.
Oh and by the way..............I agree with Carmel on the coat ironing thing........

Addendum Note for Ricky.
The Poms don't think they are right, they KNOW they are right.........and the Irish are the most right of all because they started it!!!!!!

[Carmel Murphy]

I always wondered about the tail holding also Eva!! And our standard says that the tail is set below the level of the back (not an extension of the topline!!) So definite differences!!

[eva ciechonska]

No one is answering my questions Carmel!!!! The UK standard calls for the tail to be set on "just below the level of the back and carried as nearly as possible on a level with or below the back" So closer to the original standard than the US. The tail holding started quite some time ago.....maybe someone might like to shed an historical light on it.

[Margaret Sierakowski]

Actually, I think current Irish breeders are remarkably restrained and tolerant about changes in their breed in other parts of the world ))

[Tina Clamp]

Hi carmel
This i do think is true. They created them so i do think that they must know what they should be like.
I do not have an Irish in me, only a beautiful Irish Red friend.

[JOANNE]

Just to let everyone know that Vivian Balamanti has sent me a very personal and slandering comment vis ES and this forum. She was personally abusive and rude to myself and totally slandered my dogs on my page in an extremely nasty and needless manner. I thought we were having a good debate on the Irish and I have re read my comments and most certainly did not slander her dogs infact said I really liked one of them. Sadly she has taken all of her comments off this forum and left the site but I most certainly have not seen the nastiness and rudeness displayed by any other person on this site.

[eva ciechonska]

Don't let it get to you Jo. Please carry on with the discussion.

[Cheryl Gorey]

Hi Jo, that is very sad that you have been personally targeted in this way. Please don't take it personally. It's not a reflection on you. Unfortunately, it's a reflection on the person who takes this action.

[Sue and Cash]

Joanne that rudeness and nastiness has been going on behind the scenes and directed at others here at the site. Not by Vivian. But others here that seem to feel that this site is only for these sorts of discussions and not about questions from pet owners. Just to let you know it is why you aren't seeing many discussions in the past few days. It is sad that we can't all share our love of a breed without nastiness. And again this is not about what is going on right now in your discussion but what has transpired in the past week involving other lovely people here.

[Cheryl Gorey]

Hi Sue and Sue
this is very disappointing to hear that members are being treated this way. It is the not the spirit of sharing, caring and learning! cheers

[Melinda Auld]

Very sorry to hear you've been targeted in this way, Jo. It's so sad that some people feel the need to turn a healthy, challenging, interesting discussion between interested people into a personal war. I suppose some are unable to separate comments and questions made in general about a group of dogs from the love they have for their own.

[Tina Clamp]

Hi Jo
This is supposed to be a friendly discussion and should not get personal. Noone should get personal we all love this breed surely. Please everybody, i have only been on this site for two months and i hate seeing people attacking each other. Vivian is way out of order, None of this is supposed to get personal. Chin up Joanne she needs to be ignored. take care.